306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum

None of this explains the popping and banging though :/ Something definately wrong there?

Dude this is only if my GUESS is right and it is all subject to human error and could be as much as 10% over or under (or actually wildly incorrect) and my plotting of the BHP line is pretty poor.

Realised my initial maths was a little wrong I had been adding 2 boxes for every 5 but actually it was 2 for every 7 but were there now.

1480 rpm = 85 lb/ft calculates to 24 bhp
1980 rpm = 105 lb/ft calculates to 40 bhp
2360 rpm = 120 lb/ft calculates to 54 bhp
2750 rpm = 136 lb/ft calculates to 71 bhp
3350 rpm = 160 lb/ft calculates to 102 bhp
3960 rpm = 210 lb/ft calculates to 158 bhp
4450 rpm = 185 lb/ft calculates to 157 bhp
4950 rpm = 65 lb/ft calculates to 61 bhp


Torque in red, horse power in blue

[attachment=4852]

Their RPM readings are TOTALLY out...

FAR AS IM CONCERNED - THROW YOUR RESULTS IN THE BIN

That's why the results are so f*cked...

A TD04 XUD9 producing 210lbft and 125hp? Are you shitting me!!! There's no way it's making 210lb.ft at peak without making more power - we know that TD04s don't spool that quickly, so will be producing the power at a higher RPM.

If you're paying £30 for a dyno run, they shouldn't be doing anything less than laser tachoing the crank pulley or the pump pulley and doubling the figure to do their measurements... You've literally got to insist they do it, otherwise the readings are totally to shit...

You can hear with Davids car that it's revving to a SIGNIFICANT amount more than 3850 - it hits the bloody governor for goodness sakes!! If that's the stock governor, that should be about 4850RPM - the popping and banging is due to retarded timing, but I rekon that's relatively little to do with the static pump timing, that won't have helped, but the real cause is elsewhere - that'll be because it's starving of fuel seriously and is losing case pressure, losing all the dynamic timing and going to full retard poistion...

At the end of the day, the torque give or take you can take as correct if you believe their transmission losses, judging by the fact it's a Dyno Dynamics Shootout - that'll be 15% for FWD.

I rekon that the final reading given where it stops is at 4950rpm... If we extrapolate from there back I rekon it's making 210lb.ft at 3850 (2850rpm on the graph) - that's (210*3850)/5252 which gives you a reading of 153.9hp - MUCH more like the figure I'd be expecting, now that's at peak TORQUE... So in actual fact, you'll find the horsepower carries on a bit further, even though the torque is dropping since the RPMs are increasing...

At 4300rpm (3300rpm) it's making about 195lb.ft torque... Again (195*4300)/5252 = 159.6HP... Sounding much more like it now?

This is the EXACT reason Chassis Dynos are TOTAL bullshit, people DO NOT understand the correlation between RPM and power...

Later when I can be bothered and I'm less hungry, I'll try and replot that graph in Excel as best as I can... Basically read everything 1000RPM up and then recalculate the power on top!!!

Full refund for everyone is needed then. Im pretty sure my 6 should of been higher!

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How does this look for a 6 then?

(03-02-2013, 02:42 PM)Ruan Wrote: [ -> ]Their RPM readings are TOTALLY out...

FAR AS IM CONCERNED - THROW YOUR RESULTS IN THE BIN

That's why the results are so f*cked...

A TD04 XUD9 producing 210lbft and 125hp? Are you shitting me!!! There's no way it's making 210lb.ft at peak without making more power - we know that TD04s don't spool that quickly, so will be producing the power at a higher RPM.

If you're paying £30 for a dyno run, they shouldn't be doing anything less than laser tachoing the crank pulley or the pump pulley and doubling the figure to do their measurements... You've literally got to insist they do it, otherwise the readings are totally to shit...

You can hear with Davids car that it's revving to a SIGNIFICANT amount more than 3850 - it hits the bloody governor for goodness sakes!! If that's the stock governor, that should be about 4850RPM - the popping and banging is due to retarded timing, but I rekon that's relatively little to do with the static pump timing, that won't have helped, but the real cause is elsewhere - that'll be because it's starving of fuel seriously and is losing case pressure, losing all the dynamic timing and going to full retard poistion...

At the end of the day, the torque give or take you can take as correct if you believe their transmission losses, judging by the fact it's a Dyno Dynamics Shootout - that'll be 15% for FWD.

I rekon that the final reading given where it stops is at 4950rpm... If we extrapolate from there back I rekon it's making 210lb.ft at 3850 (2850rpm on the graph) - that's (210*3850)/5252 which gives you a reading of 153.9hp - MUCH more like the figure I'd be expecting, now that's at peak TORQUE... So in actual fact, you'll find the horsepower carries on a bit further, even though the torque is dropping since the RPMs are increasing...

At 4300rpm (3300rpm) it's making about 195lb.ft torque... Again (195*4300)/5252 = 159.6HP... Sounding much more like it now?

This is the EXACT reason Chassis Dynos are TOTAL bullshit, people DO NOT understand the correlation between RPM and power...

Later when I can be bothered and I'm less hungry, I'll try and replot that graph in Excel as best as I can... Basically read everything 1000RPM up and then recalculate the power on top!!!

Exactly what i was getting at but his is the only one where the final revs arent right, pretty much every other car is spot on for what youd expect. the problem is it all relies on them tying up your revs perfectly to the machine (and also your rev counter being perfect) the torque being 100rpm out could have a good few bhp difference on the final figure.

This is what you get on a dyno day its a quick slap dash job and why your always better going on your own at another time and paying twice the amount or if you want to try a few things actually paying for dyno time. £100/hour sounds like alot but you can get alot of things done.

(03-02-2013, 02:53 PM)puglove Wrote: [ -> ]Full refund for everyone is needed then. Im pretty sure my 6 should of been higher!

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How does this look for a 6 then?

all the petrol graphs ive seen look pretty much spot on. GTi6s rarely make 167bh pas peugeot over quoted their power to make them look like a better buy above the XSi.

Hm, sadly that's about correct in fairness, maybe needs a little bit of correction, a GTi6 hits the limiter at 7250rpm, I'd say it only hits it at around 7100rpm on the graph, so could do with a little correcting, it'd probably take you to about 163hp...

The main point however is that judging by your torque curve, it's making the full 145lb.ft of torque, if not a little more infact, which says to me that the engine is performing just fine, it's just the correction that is changing...

Another thing that PISSES me RIGHT off about Dyno Dynamics graphs, don't say the exact torque figure at peak...

If you fancy a real big power hike, since it's a shit dyno dynamics, go pump your tyres to 50psi and take it on, you'll probably gain a few horsepower...

(03-02-2013, 03:09 PM)Ruan Wrote: [ -> ]If you fancy a real big power hike, since it's a shit dyno dynamics, go pump your tyres to 50psi and take it on, you'll probably gain a few horsepower...

Thats another thing youll get if you go on your own, theyll pump your tyres up to 40 or 50 psi and tell the machine that they have so it knows.

This is why shootouts are just pointless unless done PROPERLY...

On your typical dyno day, they just want to rattle through the cars so they can go home...

The whole idea of the Shootout is sound - so that it's DIRECTLY comparable to any other car on any other day... However, when the values are just overlooked, it's pointless, you can even see the correction values they're using at the bottom of the page to compensate for Barometric Pressure, Air Temp, Relative Humidity, Tyre Pressure...

Let me guess though, they didn't even think about tyre pressure, just shoved it on...

Depending on the way they strap it to the dyno you can get a good 10hp if you strap it really loosely

And I know if you EVER bought this up with a Dyno place, they'll tell you how they had it calibrated last month... It's like having a thermometer to measure the temperature of a liquid - then putting the thermometer at the very edge of the liquid so it only measures the stuff close to the cool edges, entering the wrong calibration data for the thermometer used, wrapping the probe in tin foil and then reading a different gauge... Well done, your thermometer probe is calibrated and has been checked, but doesn't negate the fact the operator is a retard...

(03-02-2013, 03:20 PM)Ruan Wrote: [ -> ]This is why shootouts are just pointless unless done PROPERLY...

On your typical dyno day, they just want to rattle through the cars so they can go home...

The whole idea of the Shootout is sound - so that it's DIRECTLY comparable to any other car on any other day... However, when the values are just overlooked, it's pointless, you can even see the correction values they're using at the bottom of the page to compensate for Barometric Pressure, Air Temp, Relative Humidity, Tyre Pressure...

Let me guess though, they didn't even think about tyre pressure, just shoved it on...

Depending on the way they strap it to the dyno you can get a good 10hp if you strap it really loosely!

I spoke to him about the numbers ect at the bottom of the graph and he did say all were set at 35 psi in the tyres!

Oh, is he a psychic tyre pressure reader?

I wish I had this ability...

(03-02-2013, 03:27 PM)Ruan Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, is he a psychic tyre pressure reader?

I wish I had this ability...

yep...or all 306 run with exactly the same

Ah yeah, all 306s automatically run the same tyre pressure, forgot about that...

That wasn't even advertised in the Peugeot literature, but they have self regulating tyre pressures...

Another proof point that the dyno operator is a chump...

Good job i always run the 6 between 34&35 psi then

Just to add. They did say before turning up please make sure your tire pressures are at 35 psi

But yeah interesting read tbh

Did they i didnt see that

(03-02-2013, 03:20 PM)Ruan Wrote: [ -> ]This is why shootouts are just pointless unless done PROPERLY...

On your typical dyno day, they just want to rattle through the cars so they can go home...

Let me guess though, they didn't even think about tyre pressure, just shoved it on...

Depending on the way they strap it to the dyno you can get a good 10hp if you strap it really loosely

Yep, i heard them moaning at about 2pm that they just wanted to go to the pub.

They never touched anyones tyres

And i really wasnt happy with how they were strapping peoples cars down, any other time they strap a 306 down its done by the tie down eyes underneath but they appeared to be strapping by the door hinges and not particularly tight cos the 2 cars i watched actually wee not only lifting (this is normal to an extent) but moving forward (this isnt normal)

The other thing is the inlet temp probe never went down anyones inlet (that i saw) so that value is pointless (IT) and although the BP and RH are different on some peoples graphs the RH seems to vary wildly and im not sure if thats normal.

(03-02-2013, 04:10 PM)4WayDiablo Wrote: [ -> ]Just to add. They did say before turning up please make sure your tire pressures are at 35 psi

But yeah interesting read tbh

I wasnt to told that but TBH they need to be done on the dyno as the pressures change according to tyre temp and tyres loose air over time anyway so after a 200 mile drive could be down again (or up from the heat building pressure)

Not that it matters cos of all the other things they werent doing

My figure was a bit short of what we'd expected, but that's because my tyres were down at 25psi, my own fault lol. However, what really pissed me off was that for £25 i only got one run, when it was advertised as being for four runs. That goes beyond incompetence and squares up as being a straight rip-off.

I will be writing an email to them tomorrow when i'm less hanging. I've not been to a dyno day before, but i was expecting better and - from what i've heard from other people of dyno days - i wasn't expecting much...

I'd have refused to pay tbh. If you only got one run. That's stupid. It could have been an anomaly and how would you know

They said they was one of the best in the country! They said cosworth come there and other racing clubs aswell. They was shite and ill be talking to Sam tonight about it

We had to pay before they run

Two words may have made them change their minds about only giving you one run after promising 4.... "Trading" and "standards"

(03-02-2013, 05:34 PM)4WayDiablo Wrote: [ -> ]Two words may have made them change their minds about only giving you one run after promising 4.... "Trading" and "standards"

That is a good one!

Tbh guys I wasnt even happy the way they did it, not at all happy so wont be going there again going to look more into it next time see what prices are all about, the main thing that pissed me off is that he said for the price hell do 4 runs but he was more concernerd about going to the pub more than doing his job I no mamy people dont want to work saturbay but if its cash in hand id do it all day not pleased what so ever

(03-02-2013, 05:29 PM)David Wrote: [ -> ]They said they was one of the best in the country! They said cosworth come there and other racing clubs aswell. They was shite and ill be talking to Sam tonight about it

Yeah they probably do and i suspect they get a much better service, theyll just of assumed that were a bunch of 306 owners with crappy diesels and not bothered.

That might be something to do with it, the fact theryre not diesel specialists

There all just gay

i was happy with 80.4 hp

It wasn't my dyno figure I was disappointed with, although in the real world it should be a little higher. Just the lack of care for my car, and being tight with the fan, obviously cutting it off early and starting it late to save electric cost I suppose.

As there is 2 threads ill stick my results here too:

This always happens on dyno days lol...........no-ones ever happy afterwards!


Also I thought they were strapped oddly....wtf did they use door hinges for? I barely trust the hinge to hold the door! I guess some of you were too low to get round the subframe but still a crap place to strap them.