New computer ordered :)

[Ruan]

SSDs are great, but you've got to be aware that they are less durable as far as time goes... Dropping them on the floor won't break them, but they simply don't last as long as magnetic media...

In my line of work we deal with drives that receive a lot of use, and they just don't last, even the enterprise grade stuff... Especially when they get hammered with IO...

As long as you're aware and back up well, you'll probably be fine, but they don't give as much warning as a mechanical drive!! Tbf the same goes for mechanical drives, but after seeing the failure rates in comparison, imo it's definitely something to consider...

However, the speed increases are totally worth it... They do make such a difference...

[Carlos182]

I have a SSD solely for OS, so no biggie if it goes up the shitter, plus an ssd for Steam/Origin gamss, so again no biggie...

[Fooby]

Holy thread revival batman.

Ruan, where did you read that SSD's don't last as long as HDD's?

From my understanding that used to be the case, years ago, when the technology was developing.

Obviously SSD's do still degrade, but the newer controllers and technology mean that technically the degradation can make them actually last longer than most mechanical drives...

Oh and in the the sake of this keeping this updated. I'm now running 16GB of ram and a GTX670 Windfoce. I've got a new layout also, i'll post pics later on.

[Ruan]

I wouldn't massively trust an SSD to hold data over a prolonged period of time, especially if there's lots of other IO going on on the drive...

It totally depends what you're doing with it, but if you're doing lots of IO with a drive, the SSD won't last as long, especially if it's an MLC. Later generation controllers change the areas in the drive that the data is stored, but there is a finite number of times that the memory can be read/written from and to...

As a general rule they are more reliable in terms of return rates, however, you have to include laptop drives in that, SSDs are great in laptops, I wouldn't have anything else, but still in a desktop if I wanted to have something that I stored my data on that I didn't want to lose, I'd still stick it on a good mechanical hard drive...

For my work, we still only really see SSDs as super fast cache/scratch space - not for prolonged storage space. Enterprise grade spinning disks are around the same price point these days as most SSDs. Enterprise grade SSDs are just silly expensive and very small - or don't have the reliability of the Enterprise grade spinning disks.

[306Puggy]

Right, due to my impatience in saving up money I have decided to build a rig myself. The spec is as follows:

Zalman Z3 Plus case (£40)

XFX 650 Watt PSU (£70)

Asus Z87-A motherboard (£94)

Intel Core i5 4670k (£135 second hand)

Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600=Mhz memory (still bidding)

GPU (not decided)

500 gig HDD from old laptop

60 gig HDD from older laptop before

22" ViewSonic HD monitor (for my bday)

Just had a look at gaming laptops and it seems they have gone below the £1000 barrier now for a half decent one. I don't need the portability at the moment but I am wondering if going back to desktop is a mistake...

You tend to forget everything you get included in a laptop such as monitor, keyboard, webcam and trackpad. Anyway I don't have the £800 upfront for an entry level gaming laptop anyway so who am I kidding And such a laptop would be adequate in performance, but I would still be paying more for less and it would be nice to be able to game properly after always having had to make do on low detail settings.

[Scott]

Spend a bit extra and get the CPU brand new. You'll have a proper warranty, not to mention you won't need to mess about with removing any existing thermal paste or crap off of the back of the CPU to allow the cooler to work at proper efficiency.

[306Puggy]

It's alright Scott I have already thought of that. It is literally such a new chip that they are all still under warranty. Released earlier this year IIRC.

[Scott]

Still the problem of using a clean backed chip for proper cooling though...

[silverzx]

Looks good enough.

[306Puggy]

Good enough? Good enough!? Dude, this rig absolutely monsters the latest games and I haven't even overclocked it yet! The only change in this build was the mobo, the ASUS Z89 one that I bought originally seems to have been faulty, it was the cheapest one on eGay from a non trade seller but when I got it everything seemed 100% legit, perhaps just a dodgy mobo from the factory. Didn't recognise the CPU. For a moment I thought it was my CPU since the CPU was second hand, but from a quick Google it seems that mobos are far more likely to fail than CPUs. So that delayed the build by about 2 weeks which was frustrating. Anyway, said CPU is now happily powering the machine that I am typing this message on Got an MSI G55 mobo in the end, exactly the same spec as the ASUS one pretty much, Z87 chipset, overclocking friendly, Crossfire and SLI supported.

Edit: This is how thermal paste should look when correctly applied:

[Ruan]

Let me guess - using a credit card or smeared with a finger.

Really shouldn't be done like that - You should apply (depending on architecture under IHS) - Sandy/Ivy/Haswell quads are two Duals bolted together on the same die running up and down the chip so you should apply a line of paste directly up and down.

Reasoning behind this is that if you spread it out, you will inevitably end up with low and high spots - which you can't do anything about... If you do it with a line, as the heatsink bolts down you'll distribute the compound evenly - it'll also take up as much room as it needs to under the heatsink, not leaving you with high/low spots uncooled. Best way if you're brave is to remove the IHS - Intel are being cheap these days and rather than soldering the IHS on or using direct contact, they're simply shoving a Thermal Compound under the spreader and gluing it on, it goes manky after a time and the chip overheats.

You can either pull off the IHS or lap the top of the IHS - Intel seem to be inept at making an IHS actually flat, Googling will reveal some photos of Intel IHSs which are about as flat as an upturned pudding bowl. Only reason the IHS is there is for when people have chonging heatsinks hanging off CPUs and they bash them down on a desk - it's likely to place a lot of pressure on the edge of the die and possibly chip it - they're fragile - but long as you're aware of it, it won't be a problem, I've removed the IHS off of every Intel chip I've had in the past and not had a problem - remember laptop CPUs still come with the lid off because the thermal transfer with the IHS off is so much better.

Have a look on the usual XtremeSystems forums etc and you'll see loads of topics about this. Mostly related to LGA775 era stuff when I was still into computers etc, but I'd be sure there's still a load of OC'ing enthusiasts still about. I got bored when OC'ing became a case of how much money do you have... Bring back the days of 4+GHz Athlon XPs, 6+GHz P4s/PentDs and ghetto as f*ck vmodded Abit IC7-Max3s I say!

Quick rant there, sorry.

[tigerstyle]

I got bored when OC'ing became a case of how much money do you have... Bring back the days of 4+GHz Athlon XPs, 6+GHz P4s/PentDs and ghetto as f*ck vmodded Abit IC7-Max3s I say!

Quick rant there, sorry.

pffft Thunderbird cored Athlon please, the original 1Ghz chip
It's always good to extract the best out of what you've got though, so good to know a bit about oc'ing. Otherwise my lowly Q6600 would still be struggling today!

[Piggy]

I tried to use google translate.... but chrome couldnt work out what language these pages are in

[mcglynn]

I tried to use google translate.... but chrome couldnt work out what language these pages are in

You're not alone on that one hahaha!

[Just Sean]

I miss my PC. Nothing beats keyboard and mouse for fps

[306Puggy]

Let me guess - using a credit card or smeared with a finger.

Really shouldn't be done like that - You should apply (depending on architecture under IHS) - Sandy/Ivy/Haswell quads are two Duals bolted together on the same die running up and down the chip so you should apply a line of paste directly up and down.

Reasoning behind this is that if you spread it out, you will inevitably end up with low and high spots - which you can't do anything about... If you do it with a line, as the heatsink bolts down you'll distribute the compound evenly - it'll also take up as much room as it needs to under the heatsink, not leaving you with high/low spots uncooled. Best way if you're brave is to remove the IHS - Intel are being cheap these days and rather than soldering the IHS on or using direct contact, they're simply shoving a Thermal Compound under the spreader and gluing it on, it goes manky after a time and the chip overheats.

You can either pull off the IHS or lap the top of the IHS - Intel seem to be inept at making an IHS actually flat, Googling will reveal some photos of Intel IHSs which are about as flat as an upturned pudding bowl. Only reason the IHS is there is for when people have chonging heatsinks hanging off CPUs and they bash them down on a desk - it's likely to place a lot of pressure on the edge of the die and possibly chip it - they're fragile - but long as you're aware of it, it won't be a problem, I've removed the IHS off of every Intel chip I've had in the past and not had a problem - remember laptop CPUs still come with the lid off because the thermal transfer with the IHS off is so much better.

Have a look on the usual XtremeSystems forums etc and you'll see loads of topics about this. Mostly related to LGA775 era stuff when I was still into computers etc, but I'd be sure there's still a load of OC'ing enthusiasts still about. I got bored when OC'ing became a case of how much money do you have... Bring back the days of 4+GHz Athlon XPs, 6+GHz P4s/PentDs and ghetto as f*ck vmodded Abit IC7-Max3s I say!

Quick rant there, sorry.

Interesting info Ruan. Yes, I used the credit card method I did Google up about all the different methods, the line method seemed less accurate to me. The way I figured it was with the credit card you can get it nice and flat and then when you stick the heat sink on, it will smooth out the rest of it to match the shape of the heat spreader/heat sink contact patch without having too much extra to squish up the sides.

Rather than just squashing down the heat sink on top of a line of potentially varying thickness/depth and letting the paste sort itself out. I guess I should have used the line method after all. Not sure I want to pull it now it's all working. Maybe I will refresh the paste in a couple of years time and do it then. The temps are good for a Haswell chip, but that only tells half the story.

I am not brave enough to remove the IHS though, maybe if I need to overclock it when it is struggling with games, until then I'll leave the IHS part alone.

Again, thanks for the knowledge again Ruan!

[Rippthrough]

Depends on the paste too, the really thick stuff like IC Diamond I spread with a card because the pressure you need on the contact points to spread it with the heatsink is insane, and it scores the soft copper as it spreads.

[kentiiboii]

Such geeks








(but secretly i miss this shit)

I don't miss any of it. I trained to be a Microsoft certified technician but I can't with it all any more it bores me. I used to be wicked with computers people ask me now and I'm so out of touch with them. my mum's claimed my laptop as hers as she uses it more than me.
My tower I killed the power supply 4th years ago.

[Ruan]

Isn't that IC Diamond stuff insanely expensive?! I still swear by AS5 - used it on most machines I've had and never had an issue... At least with thermal conductivity etc...

[Eeyore]

I either use to pile of dog poo method or the line method. Not the stick it all over evenly method.

[Fooby]

AS5 is more than good enough tbh. As ruan explained; applying thermal paste like that causes way more problems than it solves.

Especially since too much actually hinders the heat transfer from the CPU > heatsink, which is all you are trying to do anyway.

[306Puggy]

I don't see how spreading it thinly is applying too much <_< I accept the other reasons. Now stop trying to beef with me Fooby. A dim view will be taken By the way temps are mid 30s at idle, spot on for a Haswell CPU.

[Niall]

I don't see how spreading it thinly is applying too much <_< I accept the other reasons. Now stop trying to beef with me Fooby. A dim view will be taken By the way temps are mid 30s at idle, spot on for a Haswell CPU.

How on earth do you think he's trying to "beef" with you? You need to stop trying to start arguments Yashar!

[bigcheez2k3]

I just use pea sized amount in the middle, maybe a smidge more. Had no issues so far even when it was oc/d.

[kentiiboii]

You only need enough paste for the processor makes contact with the heat sink.

[Ben Jay]

The only thing I understand in this thread is Flynn is trying to start an argument! But over what I am unsure of!

[RetroPug]

[Sian]

Hahaha who is that guy!! And who even says 'beef' when referring to an argument unless you think your 'gangster' oh my!

[Alex]

What is the point of all that computer power? Seriously, what on earth do you do with it all?

[Toms306]

What is the point of all that computer power? Seriously, what on earth do you do with it all?

Puggy trolls forums and winds people up all day... It would be extremely difficult with a slow old computer.