Road Tax Petition

[Midnightclub]

I'll just copy and paste the petition statement as it explains:

"Responsible department: Department for Transport

Following the recent changes in vehicle tax, vehicle owners are now forced to surrender the value of the vehicle tax up until the end of the month in which they sell the vehicle.

Vehicle buyers are also forced to buy a full month, when they will not have had the use of the days preceeding the vehicle purchase.

It is also the case that the computer systems which coordinate the purchase of vehicle tax are given a concentrated workload at the end of each month. This has recently resulted in the service being unavailable.

I propose that vehicle tax should be available daily so that buyers and sellers are not short-changed, and that the systems are more able to cope with a more uniform demand.

This petition is of interest to anyone in the UK who will either buy or sell a motor vehicle.

Please rectify this unfair practice."

Link to petition here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/70266

Can't hurt to sign it right? He's picked up over 1100 sigs already

[Dum-Dum]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

[Niall]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No it doesn't. IT IS NOT road tax. Its VED. There is a big difference. If the tax was for maintaining the roads then yes i would agree with you but its not for that so everyone should pay as they do currently.

So, this guy is moaning that the system went down at the beginning of the month, the beginning of a month where a new system has been introduced to an entire country and hiccups are to be expected yet he wants it to be changed to daily? IIRC the most expensive VED is £485 a year so that £41 a month...Little more than a pound a day and yet this guy wants to change an entire system which will cost the public millions to do so?
Ill leave it!

[Eeyore]

yeh there shouldnt be a tax at all. If it was added to fuel duty then the move driving you did then the more you would contribute towards the cost of the roads. Simple and fair.

However this would be a problem for me running a speedboat... why should i contribute towards the road when its not for that purpose....

[Niall]

yeh there shouldnt be a tax at all. If it was added to fuel duty then the move driving you did then the more you would contribute towards the cost of the roads. Simple and fair.

However this would be a problem for me running a speedboat... why should i contribute towards the road when its not for that purpose....

Exactly. Same goes for people who use petrol power tools, or people who take their cars on track days...loads of scenarios where it just doesn't work

[Grant]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No it doesn't. IT IS NOT road tax. Its VED. There is a big difference. If the tax was for maintaining the roads then yes i would agree with you but its not for that so everyone should pay as they do currently.

So, this guy is moaning that the system went down at the beginning of the month, the beginning of a month where a new system has been introduced to an entire country and hiccups are to be expected yet he wants it to be changed to daily? IIRC the most expensive VED is £485 a year so that £41 a month...Little more than a pound a day and yet this guy wants to change an entire system which will cost the public millions to do so?
Ill leave it!

Agreed.


Only thing I'd add would be that class M VED is £1030. A little more than £485 I'll stop moaning at my £256

[DavidA]

Exactly. Same goes for people who use petrol power tools, or people who take their cars on track days...loads of scenarios where it just doesn't work

But as it's an emissions based tax it would work - power tools and track days (even boats) are creating emissions so charging the tax in the cost of fuel does work. The more you use (therefore emit) the more you pay.

Why people still think it has anything to do with roads I don't know. We pay for the roads through council tax.

[Chris_90]

If they add the tax to fuel, all the alternative fuels bio diesel/veg oil etc wouldn't be paying road tax just wouldn't work that way I'd say.

[Toms306]

No don't add it to fuel! Think I'd end up paying a lot more per year if it was added to fuel.

[THE_Liam]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No offence mate but that's bollocks. Why should I pay more road tax because I drive an old car that isn't good on fuel?

[Niall]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No offence mate but that's bollocks. Why should I pay more road tax because I drive an old car that isn't good on fuel?

Well i suppose it depends who you talk to. Some people insist its all based on emissions. Personally i don't think it is. Because we are part of the lovely EU, we get fined for emissions levels in this country over X amount so the government needs to cut down on polluting cars on the road. Equally, it needs to keep the car business going and its a pretty fair assumption to make that when buying new, the bigger polluting cars are more expensive than the little eco boxes. So how do you have a fair balance of emissions and keeping the car industry afloat? Base tax on emissions. That way, people who can't afford to pay the tax on these big V8s buy eco boxes. Those who can afford to and don't give a toss can go and buy their big engined cars and pay more tax. I look at it as basically a rich tax!

[Dum-Dum]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No offence mate but that's bollocks. Why should I pay more road tax because I drive an old car that isn't good on fuel?

Because the current system is unfair. You can have a £30 tax car, do 30k a year and rag the f*ck out of it to get 20mpg and cause a hell of alot more environmental impact than owning a 20 year old V8 range rover that you only drive up the motorway at f*ck all mph to a couple of shows a year doing nearly 50mpg


I'd probably end up paying a little more too but it will further cut the amount that people drive meaning emptier roads.


Edit: and yes i agree with Nialls rich tax comment

[THE_Liam]

No ridiculous. Needs to just be added to fuel duty.

No offence mate but that's bollocks. Why should I pay more road tax because I drive an old car that isn't good on fuel?

Well i suppose it depends who you talk to. Some people insist its all based on emissions. Personally i don't think it is. Because we are part of the lovely EU, we get fined for emissions levels in this country over X amount so the government needs to cut down on polluting cars on the road. Equally, it needs to keep the car business going and its a pretty fair assumption to make that when buying new, the bigger polluting cars are more expensive than the little eco boxes. So how do you have a fair balance of emissions and keeping the car industry afloat? Base tax on emissions. That way, people who can't afford to pay the tax on these big V8s buy eco boxes. Those who can afford to and don't give a toss can go and buy their big engined cars and pay more tax. I look at it as basically a rich tax!

But what about people who don't want to spend 15 grand on a diesel Focus and drive an old car? Emissions is just EU bullshit for people who believe in global warming. The planet has been warming up and cooling down for millions of years, long before Range Rovers...

[Kezzieboy]

Oh Liam. Obviously you know better than 95% of the scientific community then.

[Niall]

Liam thats why people like you aren't affected by emissions based tax. Its only based on emissions after 2001 so yours is purely based on engine size

[1616six]

Haven't read the thread but the petition would only ever have a chance of possibly ever working if everyone signed the same petition, I've seen loads. Pointless either way, I don't moan, I just pay. Just set my direct debit up, £9.86 isn't much to pay per month to use the road.

[THE_Liam]

Oh Liam. Obviously you know better than 95% of the scientific community then.

Thanks for the support mate

Liam thats why people like you aren't affected by emissions based tax. Its only based on emissions after 2001 so yours is purely based on engine size

Exactly bud, but effectively if it was on fuel duty it would be an emissions tax on me. No fucker even knows what my car does with it being that old, but with K-Jet and the stink of unburnt fuel for the first 2 miles every morning I bet it's shit!

[Piggy]

VED isnt road tax. We just call that.

It should be abolished all together...that would save the nation millions.

[Niall]

VED isnt road tax. We just call that.

It should be abolished all together...that would save the nation millions.

How did you work that out?

[Piggy]

Over 35million cars on the road....

VED per vehicle average must be £100-120?! Average?

You do the math. As a nation of bill paying motorists...thats a lot of money. A lot of money NOT going towards improving the joy of owning a car/traveling etc

(add on to that the cost to run Swansea to process VED and he cost to Police it)

[Niall]

Over 35million cars on the road....

VED per vehicle average must be £100-120?! Average?

You do the math. As a nation of bill paying motorists...thats a lot of money. A lot of money NOT going towards improving the joy of owning a car/traveling etc

(add on to that the cost to run Swansea to process VED and he cost to Police it)

You may not realise this but there are more important things than having your drive to work made slightly better. Like paying off our debt or paying for healthcare or essential services like fire and rescue and police.

[Piggy]

Emergency services are paid via council tax and other taxes. NHS is also not funded by VED.

We have debt as a nation. But we all have our own debts too. VED shouldnt be used to pay a nations debt.

[Niall]

VED goes into the big pot which funds everything after it is dished out to councils. It DOES NOT pay for fixing potholes and putting up new traffic lights. Hence why its not called road tax and hasn't been since the 70s. If we did away with VED, we would really struggle to pay for essential services so no, we wouldn't be better off, we would be much worse off.

[Piggy]

So the VED is not road tax which might keep roads maintained and put up traffic lights...

VED actually goes into a big pot...with other taxes...and gets dished out to councils...who then maintain the roads and put up traffic lights...

[Niall]

Ok so it probably does partly pay for that. Most people have this idea that there is a separate pot that VED goes into that solely pays for the roads. It doesn't.
So we do away with VED like you say and that helps how? Not only do we suffer with all the services the councils provide but also don't get the bulbs changed in our traffic lights? So where exactly is the logic in your plan?

[Piggy]

What if MPs didnt get paid...just like they didnt originally? Bet that would offset it

[Niall]

No. It really wouldn't. Think how many MPs there are.
Also, how are they supposed to live? Not all of them are loaded

[Piggy]

I duno...they could work hard for a living?!

---

Just realised how political this is...my bad....Im just throwing in ideas, I am honestly totally neutral on the matter. I pay my taxes and always will.

But...

End of day....

Like I have said before (no one seems to get it though), no government, tax or rulership decided upon and controlled by man is going to
1) work long term
2) make everyone happy
3) solve the REAL problems.


Something else, something bigger, and better, is needed.

[Dum-Dum]

Actually MP's don't really earn a stupid amount (considering what they do) which stems from the days that they werent paid but they do get expenses that cover everything they need to do their job. Lets put it like this its less than alot of doctors, police officers, and other civil servants and actually less than a tube driver gets paid.

Getting rid of the system and adding it onto fuel yes would enable the government to make alot of redundancies from the swansea job creation scheme however then not only do you have to pay those otherwise unemployable ming mongs benefits but it has a knock on effect on the area where they have less money to spend in local businesses so the local businesses struggle and have to lay people off and it ends up in a vicious cycle.

[Josh1994]

So there isnt no 6 months 12 months no more? Do you have to renew it each month? If that is the case its all bs tbh.. i would rather have the old version back..