Another which car? thread

[lewisdmz]

Geez these are pretty boring I know but everyone loves to have an opinion and chip in anyway.

Basically after about 5 years of owning 306's I've got a hankering for something different. My requirements are pretty interesting as far as these threads go, no high mpg's or anything ghey like that needed:

- No less than 20mpg town driving
- Do not need boot space/child seat/easy access for old people
- No diesels
- Budget of around £3500
- As reliable as a 6
- Should be over 130bhp/tonne

Couple of considerations so far

Mazda MX-5 Mk1
Pros:
- Cheap to buy and run
- Cheap to insure
- RWD fun
- Lively handling

Cons:
- Soft top
- Slow
- Not great looking
- No boot space if needed

BMW E30 325i
Pros:
- Look epic
- RWD fun
- "The noise"
- Raw driving experience

Cons:
- Over priced
- Hard to find a good one
- Rust
- MPGee's

Honda Integra Type R
Pro's
- Reliability?
- Average mpg
- Look awesome
- Handle awesome

Cons:
- Expensive insurance on imports / hard to find UK ones
- Rust
- Hard to find good ones

Renaultsport Megane 225
Pros:
- Handling (but maybe too similar to a 6?)
- Nice grunty engine
- Lots of space if needed

Cons:
- Reliability?
- High running costs (big tyres/brakes etc).


Fully open to suggestions or advice on the above candidates. :-)

[Tom]

Civic type r?

[ozonehostile]

lotus elise s1 or a vauxhall vx220, although i doubt you could find one for less than £5k
i had a lotus, immense fun to hoon about in and resonably cheap to run and insure because its only a 1.8, but a honda type r engine does drop straight in if you really want to scare yourself. but like i said, expensive

[4WayDiablo]

a supercharger kit for the 306

Pros:
its something you know
you get to keep a beatiful 306
is 250bhp
handling

cons:
mpg's? maybe i dont know how they are
its a gti6

[Toms306]

306 gti-6 seems to fit your criteria quite well.

[Andy]

Honda S2000. Have a huuuge soft spot for them. Hard top and a little subtle spoiler. <3 slammed on Rota Grid P45R's. awwwwww I've had an accident.

[Ruan]

Issues with the cars you've posted as I see it...

MX5 -
Without massive amounts of work, they're quite boring, even the 1.8 is disasterously slow... Coming from a 306 they're nothing to write home about, when coming from an Astra etc they're impressive... They're not Drift Kings choice of car much as most people will make out... Also, you need to add CHRONIC RUST to your list of cons IMO after dealing with one for a while, they do rust BADLY... The Mk2 is better... If you want something with more pace, this isn't the car, they're significantly slower than a GTi6.. No Mk1 is over 130hp/tonne.

325i -
The E30s aren't that nice, aren't that quick and unless you're prepared to spend a lot on it, they won't drive anything LIKE as well as a 306...

ITR - Rust isn't as much of an issue as first made out, the engines are very nice if you like revving and REALLY working them... If you want something a bit less frantic, they're not the car to go for, if you want something you have to drive ten tenths everywhere to make it an enjoyable drive - it's the car for you, don't get me wrong, there's nothing quite like the top end "rush" of a VTEC... If you one day fancy picking up the pace without battering the engine off the limiter, you're going to go about as fast as a 1.6 306... They are NOT quick unless being ragged to death, but if you like ragging to death, go for it.

Megane 225 - Would never buy a 225, I'd only bother getting an R26, which will barely be in your price range, the reliability isn't excellent, as you've pointed out running costs are high and with a stage 1 remap to ~270hp they start f*cking clutches and remember they have a dual mass flywheel - however their midrange pace is the best out of all the cars listed... The R26 has an LSD and suspension tweaks and really is a drivers car, they do corner VERY well, the 225 is numb in comparison...

Looked at Clios etc - hate to say it, they're the only thing that comes close in your list? Only other cars are more towards big awd saloons...

[Curt]

No MX-5's aren't fast, but that's not what they're about IMO. I've never driven a car with as much "character" as mine before. But, turbo and supercharges are very common for a good reason... Yes rust is a large issue, but from what you said about not liking the front, surely you're better off looking for looking at a mk2? Which would be better on that front. I'd recommend driving one first though, they're like big go-carts and just fun. Plus hardtops are all over the place so that solves the "soft top" con.

[lewisdmz]

a supercharger kit for the 306

Pros:
its something you know
you get to keep a beatiful 306
is 250bhp
handling

cons:
mpg's? maybe i dont know how they are
its a gti6

Basically after about 5 years of owning 306's I've got a hankering for something different.

*Doh* Charging a 6 is too much of a waste of money, plus it's just a faster 306.

Issues with the cars you've posted as I see it...

MX5 -
Without massive amounts of work, they're quite boring, even the 1.8 is disasterously slow... Coming from a 306 they're nothing to write home about, when coming from an Astra etc they're impressive... They're not Drift Kings choice of car much as most people will make out... Also, you need to add CHRONIC RUST to your list of cons IMO after dealing with one for a while, they do rust BADLY... The Mk2 is better... If you want something with more pace, this isn't the car, they're significantly slower than a GTi6.. No Mk1 is over 130hp/tonne.

325i -
The E30s aren't that nice, aren't that quick and unless you're prepared to spend a lot on it, they won't drive anything LIKE as well as a 306...

ITR - Rust isn't as much of an issue as first made out, the engines are very nice if you like revving and REALLY working them... If you want something a bit less frantic, they're not the car to go for, if you want something you have to drive ten tenths everywhere to make it an enjoyable drive - it's the car for you, don't get me wrong, there's nothing quite like the top end "rush" of a VTEC... If you one day fancy picking up the pace without battering the engine off the limiter, you're going to go about as fast as a 1.6 306... They are NOT quick unless being ragged to death, but if you like ragging to death, go for it.

Megane 225 - Would never buy a 225, I'd only bother getting an R26, which will barely be in your price range, the reliability isn't excellent, as you've pointed out running costs are high and with a stage 1 remap to ~270hp they start f*cking clutches and remember they have a dual mass flywheel - however their midrange pace is the best out of all the cars listed... The R26 has an LSD and suspension tweaks and really is a drivers car, they do corner VERY well, the 225 is numb in comparison...

Looked at Clios etc - hate to say it, they're the only thing that comes close in your list? Only other cars are more towards big awd saloons...

I was hoping the 'driving experience' of a MX5 would make up for the slow pace. Not desperate for more power as I think even 137bhp/tonne or whatever the 6 has is perfectly adequate for road driving.

The 225 is going to be numb against the R25 but how about compared to the other cars mentioned, say a CTR?

182's are an obvious choice but I think they're a bit too similar to a 306, I drove one once and found it quite cramped (being 6 4"). Maybe that's another reason to write off the MX-5?

Civic Type R is a good shout actually meant to add that one to the list, would be looking at around 100,000 miler's with my budget.

---

306 gti-6 seems to fit your criteria quite well.

Well this is the problem, you have to spend significantly more to get anything which is really a substantial step up in terms of power/handling/spec.

Honda S2000. Have a huuuge soft spot for them. Hard top and a little subtle spoiler. <3 slammed on Rota Grid P45R's. awwwwww I've had an accident.

They are exxxtremely nice, haven't looked into prices but I imagine they will be out of budget for a decent one.

[Tom]

Bollocks would you haha.... You can get a ctr with less than 100though for 3500 with relative ease! Theres the whole "A 6 could keep with it" But its all about the driver

Edit: Okok maybe my estimations were out but kick this guy in the cock with a 3k offer? lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CIVIC-TY...2325e961aa

[Tom]

Thought about?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-SUBARU-IM...337e2a6470

[Dan!]

Just fyi y'allll, my mx5 was literally like 1m behind dum dums stripped '6 in a traffic light grand prix a month or so back. They aren't amazingly fast il admit but they stick round corners brilliantly, even at standard ride height /annoying CAR

[Ruan]

EP3s simply aren't as good as a GTi6 when you turn the wheel - stock for stock... The EP3 is too predictably understeery on the limit... Having driven and been passenger in one quite a few times, I'd personally take a GTi6 for the more raw drive... If you like the GTi6 and want something similar, then yes, an EP3 is a good choice, but IMO they're not quite as sweet as the 306... The engine of an EP3 is better every day if you like a spankable engine, but the chassis of a GTi6 is that bit better...

Imprezas are a quick car, but aren't a hot hatch... Depends what you want, they're all again predictably safe understeer on the limit, yes the limit is higher, but all that means is that the speed you're going is regularly higher than a hot hatch... An Impreza isn't there to stick a big grin on your face on twisty windy roads, it's purely there to grip as hard as it can and get fast out of corners... Some people get their kicks from this, but I prefer the chuckable-ness and sweet *handling* of a good hot hatch... Not the outright grip and seriousness of an AWD car...

CTR vs R26 - personally I'd take the R26... It's just a sweeter car IMO, but that's me, I'd rather have the Turbo-4 than a high revving NA, but I come from 300+lbft Diesels, so maybe I'm biased... The LSD in the R26 turns it into a great car IMO. The CTR is a very capable track car and everything, a GTi6 is probably closer in comparison to an EP3 than an R26, the R26 IMO is probably a more well rounded car, it'll do your every day as well as the spanking... Whereas the EP3 is great at spanking too, but not quite so good at the every day...

And yeah, Clios I can't drive either - I'm 6'6 and they're just stupidly uncomfortable... And yeah, you'll have serious problems in an MX5, my knees ended in agony simply being a passenger in an MX5, let alone being a driver. Also, MX5s are quick off the line, dunno why, they just are... But that's probably down to the fact GTi6s are especially SHIT off the line.

[Pete]

Thaought about something a little bigger.. Octavia vRS? Accord typeR? If its a hot hatch your set on what about the mk2 Focus ST? Not sure if they're in budget though.

[Ruan]

Mk2 wouldn't be, a Mk1 RS I'd have any day of the week, bloody cracking car IMO.

Accord Type Rs are awesome too, nimble as f*ck for their size, BLOODY thirsty though... Like REALLY f*cking thirsty.

[Pete]

Yeah a mate had an ATR, awesome thing..plus without the spoiler everyone thinks your just a taxi driver

[ozonehostile]

how about a peugeot 206 gti180? pretty rapid standard, brilliant fun to chuck about b roads, variable valve timing like a vtec engine, nice interior etc. you can pick up a fairly nice example (i.e. less than 100k miles) for about £1500 and you already have all the knowledge of peugeots.
maybe not quite the move away from the 306 you wanted, but it is something different yet familiar

[Ed Doe]

The 206 gti180 isn't as quick as it's made out to be. It's also from what I've heard not as fun as a 306 to drive, but it will be too similar to it to warrant the cash imo...
Also, VVti... Very different to Vtec... The ew10 engine in the 206 varies the point at which the valves open to allow it to run lairier cams, so it breathes better when 'on cam' up the revs, but also idles smoothly, and increases mid-range torque significantly over a non vvti engine with the same cams if that makes sense..

By comparison, Vtec is a different cam-follower & cam lobe on the same camshaft. It uses the normal cams for the inlet valves below 5500rpm, and then locks the followers into the lairier cam lobe at 5500 rpm, allowing it to breather better and make more power;

www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=AcT_ZyY3F0k

[Jonny81191]

R33 skyline?

[ozonehostile]

nice little clip that, but yeah, the gti180 is quite heavy for its size therefore not quite as sharp as a '6, but still with a pugsport ecu, fast road cams and coilovers its pretty fun to say the least and if you stay off the vvc 37mpg town driving is achievable

[Ruan]

206 GTi180s are pretty crap, don't corner anything like as well and are slower (tried and tested lol..)

Sticking a GTi180 engine in a 306, however.

[ozonehostile]

206 GTi180s are pretty crap, don't corner anything like as well and are slower (tried and tested lol..)

Sticking a GTi180 engine in a 306, however.

i like your thinking, a 306 gti180 would be awesome, lighter, better looking and better handling

---

does matt have another engine in his rallye yet?

[Jonny81191]

how about a nissan 200 SX?

[Ruan]

Only issue is that the EW10s sit at 15* rather than 30* like the XU10s... However, they are a much better engine, the block design is VERY similar to that of a K20 infact...

[Ed Doe]

Sticking a GTi180 engine in a 306, however.

Ed likes this

[Poodle]

E36 328i? More up to date than the e30s, and generally easier to find in good condition as they aren't the type to be ragged, generally speaking.

[Toms306]

306 gti-6 seems to fit your criteria quite well.

Well this is the problem, you have to spend significantly more to get anything which is really a substantial step up in terms of power/handling/spec.

That is quite true tbh. I was only thinking about this the other day. What I'd buy for less than £2k if I didn't have to worry about mpg or insurance. And I still came up with the answer of a '6!

[Ed Doe]

I've had this problem but even with a hypothetical budget of 8k...

S2k- veeeery snappy on the limit meaning you can't just grab it by the scruff and hurl it down your favourite back road, you can't drive it at 10 10ths cause in the back of your mind you'll be worrying about becoming another s2k backwards into a tree statistic. On that note the insurance is hellish because of the above...

Leon Cupra R - quick but boring as to drive. Too insulated and removed from the art of driving with Traction control sound deadening. The steering also way too over assisted and you get no feedback as a result. I've been a passenger in one loads as a mate owned one, they do shift but it's all safe understeer at the limit and it basically feels like it needs about 500hp more to make it even vaguely exciting...

Focus rs mk1 yes! But still a bit of an image thing with those nor into cars...

Focus St isn't a bad shout, but again its newer, it's about as quick as a 6 anyway, heavier, more numb etc etc etc. I do like em but not sure enough to buy one!

You could try mr2s?dupposedly rapid with the right mods..

[Jukie88]

Clio 182 with cup package ???
Golf v6 4 motion remap it and you have yourself r32 power ???

Renault 5 gt

Pulsar gtr ?

Older evos 1/2/3 ??

Starlet turbo??

Eacort r's turbo ??

I'm also pondering what to get as next year the st is being sold all these I've looked at and all look like a good shout

[ozonehostile]

any evo is insanely expensive to run and maintain, only run on shell optimax fuel, diff oil change every 4000 miles, expensive tyres, very high maintenance engines.

golf vr6 4motion is quick in a straight line alright but there so boring to drive, no drama in corners atall, very quiet uninvolving drive and surprisingly slow of the line despite the 4 wheel drive. plus its a golf