1.8 Turbo

[Niall]

Right some of you might have heard me talking about this and I'm getting very serious about it but am in need of help with the planning.

After a chat with Ruan, he seems to reckon I can get about 10-12psi on standard internals. If I was to go higher, I would need new internals which would be very costly as no one makes pistons and rods for the 1.8 so would have to be custom made!
What turbo would I be looking at using? I'm trying to work out at the moment if it's worth doing this. Obviously it's not going to be cheap so is the cost going to be worth the potentially small gain in power?
Basically I just put this thread up as a discussion and to hear people's views and more professional opinions (darren, Ruan.....) because I want to get as much info as possible before diving in and starting to buy parts.

[darrenjlobb]

Tbh I honestly couldnt tell you what your engine will put up with, as Ive got NO tuning experiences / hands on experience with them motors at all to know, but would imagine it would shit itself fairly quickly if you start going for serious power... Need to speak to petrol heads really

Youd need to run standalone management, and mod the intake / mod ally '6 intake to take boost, and then manifold, but other than that, jobs jobbed really heh, just get it mapped professionally....

[Niall]

Management is something that's on the books anyway as I want cams and the original 1.8 Sagem ECU just does not remap!
When you say would need to modify the inlet, how do you mean?

[darrenjlobb]

Management is something that's on the books anyway as I want cams and the original 1.8 Sagem ECU just does not remap!
When you say would need to modify the inlet, how do you mean?

Well tbh acaully a stock 6 manifold would work ok, as without supercharger in the way it will fit anyway, so just blow boost in the front of it I guess, not sure if there are any sensors that need removing / putting pre turbo etc...like I said, im a n00b when it comes to gassers

[4WayDiablo]

T2's could go well. Admittedly standard on the dt but also used on the renault 5 gtt and starlet turbo. Just. A thought?

[Niall]

T2's could go well. Admittedly standard on the dt but also used on the renault 5 gtt and starlet turbo. Just. A thought?

Don't know tbh. This is where I need help. I don't know anything about what turbo is what lol

[spike2002]

Have a look on dp-engineering website they do a turbo conversion for the gti6 may g
Help you out??

[Niall]

Have a look on dp-engineering website they do a turbo conversion for the gti6 may g
Help you out??

H,mm they actually have the 7jp4 on there as an option. Wonder if they would sell me the manifolds separately?!

[darrenjlobb]

Anything to do with DP wil be incredibly expensive...

Be alot cheaper to just get something made up here in the uk one off....

Could maybe even get a blower down the back of the motor? head cant be that much bigger than the 16v dervs?

[Scott]

I've not checked their prices in a while but last time I checked (and I looked for the V6 :?) their manifold alone was something like £2k, which is a lot for what's part of a kit so is standardised.

As Darren mentioned, with the supercharger kit, the MAF (at least I think it's MAF) is placed pre-charger, so that the ECU doesn't shit itself when it sees boost, however if you're going down the aftermarket ECU route then that's not something you'll need to worry about, as it'll all be mapped up to suit. I imagine the 6 manifold could work then?

[Niall]

Yeah I will be having a chat with the guy who made my exhaust to get a quote for manifolds.
I reckon you may JUST get a small turbo down the back but routing the piping could be interesting seeing as the petrol bay is a fair bit more cluttered than your derv bays!

I'm not paying 2k for a manifold. Sod that!
I have read that on standard management you need the map before the charge but seeing as I'm using aftermarket, surely I would end up with two? Surely the ECU will need to know the boost pressure?

[darrenjlobb]

Yeh just use gti6 manifold and a map sensor and sack off the maff id have thought....

[spike2002]

I wasnt saying buy it from dp as thay are expensive but gives you abit more info on what is involved

[Scott]

Could always relocate the battery to free up some space? Obviously doesn't allow you to stick it behind the engine though.

Really want to see this get done!

[Niall]

Could always relocate the battery to free up some space? Obviously doesn't allow you to stick it behind the engine though.

Really want to see this get done!

Battery will be being moved. Can almost guarantee I will need the space!

[darrenjlobb]

Tbh ive discussed this with people lots of times before, but you could do it fairly cheaply...the biggest expense will always be the management if you do it urself..

You could weld up a homebrew manifold for under 200 quid, well under 100 quid if you have shit kicking around already...no it wont be textbook designed / perfect etc, but meh, its not going to make big enough differences to justofy the 2k...get turbo from another vehicle on ebay for cheap, oil lines made up for under 20 quid, boost hoses / intercooler for under 200 tops, really not that expensive when you man up and figure it for yourself, instead of silly charger kits etc....

[ginge191]

I'm at work and can't read any of this, but yes yes yes yes yes!!' I'll be following your footsteps mate!

[Atterz]

A T2 is a stupid idea so rule that out, your looking at a GT series turbo of about 25/28 size. The management requirments should be discussed beforehand with your tuner of choice and this will determine the layout and what sensors will be required (wideband lamdas,map requirements, fuel pressure regulator etc). Some more information on the parts required would also need to be found, and again your chosen tuner will have a better idea having experianced varying setups throughout the years.

I dare say you should be able to fit the turbo behind the engine just as the XUDs/DWs do, however take into account heat management as a petrol exhaust is much hotter than on a diesel.

[samass]

mmmm awesome! i dont have much (anything) to input on this, but i'll be following it closer than an audi!

[Niall]

Tbh ive discussed this with people lots of times before, but you could do it fairly cheaply...the biggest expense will always be the management if you do it urself..

You could weld up a homebrew manifold for under 200 quid, well under 100 quid if you have shit kicking around already...no it wont be textbook designed / perfect etc, but meh, its not going to make big enough differences to justofy the 2k...get turbo from another vehicle on ebay for cheap, oil lines made up for under 20 quid, boost hoses / intercooler for under 200 tops, really not that expensive when you man up and figure it for yourself, instead of silly charger kits etc....

Yeah I wouldn't buy the kit. Don't need all new parts. Just thought if they had premade manifolds, it might make my life easier!
Management will be coming soon as its something I need for future mods. Shouldn't be too expensive as the loom I can make my self and to start with, I will use the base map until I'm ready to bolt cams in and bolt a turbo on.

[Ben Jay]

Buy this

job done...

[Toby]

Buy this

job done...

+1, that will give you huge gains in power, as well as increasing your street cred!

[THE_Liam]

I reckon a T2 would be perfect for what you want, it's what Turbo Technics used to fit on the 205 GTI which is a similar engine, it's well suited to 10-12 psi which is about what it runs on a DT...
Just do it cheap and simple. Get a mani made up cheaply, my mate got one made for his Clio Williams when he turbo'ed that for about £180, get standalone management or even consider the 5th injector method. I'm guessing your not too bothered about how much it actually produces, if this was all about power I'm sure you'd just drop a '6 engine in right?

[Atterz]

T2s are old and shit by todays standards, im not being an arse, there really is better turbos out there now.

[THE_Liam]

T2s are old and shit by todays standards, im not being an arse, there really is better turbos out there now.

I agree mate, but T2s are cheap and very easily available, and about right for this kind of application. With the boost he's gonna be making, a newer and better turbo wouldn't make a huge difference really...

[Ruan]

The T2 is way too small, past about 5000rpm, it wouldn't even supply the air demand that the engine needs. Think about how much power a T2 will actually make on an XUD9 - about 140-150hp, not to mention it's at a lower RPM... They're seriously crap turbos, wouldn't provide more air than the engine could demand anyway... Gotta remember airflow requirements, not boost - boost is only a measure of inlet restriction.

Turbo behind the engine - I personally wouldn't bother, seriously, stick it in the battery box, the 16v heads are quite big and it'd take some serious engineering to make the manifold fit with a turbo on... You're going to have driveshaft/steering rack fouling problems if you try it down there.

As far as management goes - essentially I wouldn't bother with anything stock, yes the S/C GTi6s use the whole MAP before the butterfly which is before the SC - yes it works, but it's a complete lash up, means your entire intercooler, pipework, SC is under vacuum off the throttle, causing stalling, crap throttle response, and anyhu, it would have to be proportional to engine RPM - which a Turbocharger isn't...

Either go Megasquirt or Emerald IMO. Emerald - yes it's more expensive, but there's people in this country who seriously know what they're doing with it. If you fancy having a go with the mapping yourself and doing the electrics/electronics yourself - megasquirt all the way and save yourself a few quid whilst doing it.

GT25/860R or around that mark is going to be what you're looking at, very capable turbo, but very little lag - do a bit of reasearch and you'll find they come off quite a few cars as standard!

You shouldn't need to uprate anything too much to begin with, 1.8 cams are fairly mild as standard which is good for a Turbo setup, lairy cams and turbos don't go together...

Get someone to make the manifold and downpipe for you, equal length is nice, but I wouldn't worry so much!

[Niall]

I reckon a T2 would be perfect for what you want, it's what Turbo Technics used to fit on the 205 GTI which is a similar engine, it's well suited to 10-12 psi which is about what it runs on a DT...
Just do it cheap and simple. Get a mani made up cheaply, my mate got one made for his Clio Williams when he turbo'ed that for about £180, get standalone management or even consider the 5th injector method. I'm guessing your not too bothered about how much it actually produces, if this was all about power I'm sure you'd just drop a '6 engine in right?

I'm not too fussed about power gain to an extent. I don't want to do this just to gain 2bhp as its not worth the cost but I'm not expecting 170bhp either! The main reason I'm doing it is to do something different. everyone just drops a gti6 lump in and that's a boring way of doing things!

[Ruan]

200hp should be easily obtainable with a bit of noggin usage... No reason 250hp couldn't be seen, it's purely the strength of the engine that will hold you back...

You're just going to have to be very careful with timing and boost to begin with... The XUs in general have a pretty good combustion chamber design that resists knock well...

First thing you need to factor is a wideband O2 - essentially if you don't have one, don't bother tuning a petrol, you haven't a clue what's going on! If you can get Exhaust gas temperature as well, do it, you can pretty much instantly tell if there's something up with the engine and you're not noticing it...

Oh, and get a decent fuel pump - Bosch 044 inline - that way you know you're not going to destroy the engine from running it lean because the pump can't cope.

[THE_Liam]

I'm not too fussed about power gain to an extent. I don't want to do this just to gain 2bhp as its not worth the cost but I'm not expecting 170bhp either! The main reason I'm doing it is to do something different. everyone just drops a gti6 lump in and that's a boring way of doing things!

Might not be that helpful mate but do you want me to see if my mate with the Williams Turbo can give you a ring? He went with the 5th injector method, which everyone advised against, but it seems to work really well. Fuel economy isn't too bad and it makes about 195bhp on the dyno, but it does tend to overfuel off-boost, and he used a T2 that I bought originally to replace the dying K14 on my Sedan

Fair play for doing something different, I wouldn't spend too much though. I think it cost him around £400 in total which for an extra 45bhp (assuming the engine was making the stock 150bhp, which I doubt after 140k!) is damn good value in my book...

[Niall]

I'm not too fussed about power gain to an extent. I don't want to do this just to gain 2bhp as its not worth the cost but I'm not expecting 170bhp either! The main reason I'm doing it is to do something different. everyone just drops a gti6 lump in and that's a boring way of doing things!

Might not be that helpful mate but do you want me to see if my mate with the Williams Turbo can give you a ring? He went with the 5th injector method, which everyone advised against, but it seems to work really well. Fuel economy isn't too bad and it makes about 195bhp on the dyno, but it does tend to overfuel off-boost, and he used a T2 that I bought originally to replace the dying K14 on my Sedan

Fair play for doing something different, I wouldn't spend too much though. I think it cost him around £400 in total which for an extra 45bhp (assuming the engine was making the stock 150bhp, which I doubt after 140k!) is damn good value in my book...

Thanks for the offer mate but this won't be happening till the end of the year. Might have a chat when things go tits up!haha

I would be happy if it cost me 400 but I doubt it a lot!