Another what car thread...

[C.A.R.]

I don't doubt that they're a quick car with good handling, but they're not a car you can grab 'by the scruff of the neck' and really push your luck in - they're a big car at the end of the day, nothing like what a light-footed hot hatch can do.

Without meaning to sound condescending, have you even driven a properly setup 3 series? Or is that opinion based purely on thought? Genuine question.

It's not concecending at all bud, and no I haven't driven one hard before, it's just years of reading car mags that have formulated my 'unexperienced' opinion, that's what they all seem to allude to.

I'm totally open to you suggesting otherwise since you have first hand experience, I just can't imagine that an e46 is as forgiving as say a FWD hot hatch / coupé down one of our country's fine B-roads*. You can usually take a lot more risks in a FWD car because the grip is easier to predict, all you're ever going to get is understeer when pushing or lift-oversteer where applicable. In a RWD car you can get snap oversteer if something unsettles the car, which is worrying. Not saying that I'm scared of RWD cars, just that most people aren't the driving gods they like to think they are and when the time calls, the talent isn't there to keep out of the scenery...

*ie bumpy as fook

[Midnightclub]

^^
That's fair enough, I'd agree that over sharp bumps it can be a little skittish but I think that's more down to the low profile tyres on the 18's and how I've got my damping setup currently, I imagine with 17's with a slightly thicker sidewall the handling would improve further but in stock guise it was very planted even over sharp bumps (that was on 14 year old dampers/springs too). The independent suspension also means if you hit a bump with one wheel, the entire car doesn't jump or skip. In stock guise you do 'feel' the weight more due the aforementioned roll but you can pick up a set of eibach for the same price as you could for a 306 (and easy to fit.. no TB's FTW!!) which would sharpen up and reduce the roll to no end and cheaply, but keeping it comfortable.

I was a little 'worried' as to the difference between FWD and RWD especially given a 306 and a '46 are so different but it's just something to get used to, you can use the throttle pedal to help push the back round, but they aren't as tail happy as most people expect and generally will understeer before oversteering as they're setup for grip (not to say you can't get them sideways however..)

I would say (dare i?) that coming on/off the throttle is a lot more stable in a '46 than say a GTi6, but I think a lot of that is down to the weight distribution.. GTi is like nearly 70% front weight? Where as '46 (in fact basically all bimmer) is 50/50.

[Niall]

Exactly as CAR said, how many blown turbos do you see on N/A cars?

one less thing to go wrong...

Lol ok. So would you and CAR buy a car with only 3 wheels just because it's less of them to get a puncture on?
Turbos normally only fail if they are mistreated. Same as anything really. I can only think of two cars which have a reputation for blowing turbos and that's a Astra Vxr and 9-5/9-3 with garret turbos (not the aeros).

[aaronshort]

3 Series isn't really a proper 'drivers' car, it's a quick car yes, but hardly something you can point and shoot down a B-road in anger.

I used to think the exact same thing and was worried of the handling especially coming from a 6, but given how mines setup now I'd completely disagree, it's very very chuck'able for the weight and the nose goes exactly where you point it

Thats after work though, you can make any car handle well with some work!
My e36 is terrible on backroads, mostly due to the steering

[1616six]

Bit of a silly response don't you think?

No, i'd stick to 4 wheels.

Turbos don't always 'go' no. But certainly likely to wear out and cause more problems than a n/a.

Not saying I wouldn't buy one, but i'd probably stick to trying to look at non turbos on the basis i've had turbo issues before & it's just one less thing to worry about.

[Midnightclub]

3 Series isn't really a proper 'drivers' car, it's a quick car yes, but hardly something you can point and shoot down a B-road in anger.

I used to think the exact same thing and was worried of the handling especially coming from a 6, but given how mines setup now I'd completely disagree, it's very very chuck'able for the weight and the nose goes exactly where you point it

Thats after work though, you can make any car handle well with some work!
My e36 is terrible on backroads, mostly due to the steering

If you note my last reply, I do mention its handling in stock guise which is more than adequate tbh.

The chassis are also completely different between the 36 and 46.. personally found the 36 to be less predictable also and actually had my first crash due to that (not me driving).

[THE_Liam]

I don't doubt that they're a quick car with good handling, but they're not a car you can grab 'by the scruff of the neck' and really push your luck in - they're a big car at the end of the day, nothing like what a light-footed hot hatch can do.

Without meaning to sound condescending, have you even driven a properly setup 3 series? Or is that opinion based purely on thought? Genuine question.

It's not concecending at all bud, and no I haven't driven one hard before, it's just years of reading car mags that have formulated my 'unexperienced' opinion, that's what they all seem to allude to.

I'm totally open to you suggesting otherwise since you have first hand experience, I just can't imagine that an e46 is as forgiving as say a FWD hot hatch / coupé down one of our country's fine B-roads*. You can usually take a lot more risks in a FWD car because the grip is easier to predict, all you're ever going to get is understeer when pushing or lift-oversteer where applicable. In a RWD car you can get snap oversteer if something unsettles the car, which is worrying. Not saying that I'm scared of RWD cars, just that most people aren't the driving gods they like to think they are and when the time calls, the talent isn't there to keep out of the scenery...

*ie bumpy as fook

I've not driven an E46 or E60, but I have driven a fair few E36s, a couple of E30s and an E21, and I have to say I haven't driven many cars as surefooted and stable in the bends as the 3-Series. Nimble, forgiving, quick to react, ride the bumps and take bad roads in their stride, and as for the back kicking out and putting you in the scenery, you'd either have to be a crap driver or driving like an utter penis. I came very close to buying an E36 328 before I bought the Merc, and considering my current average of 22mpg I might yet go for one

[Midnightclub]

Tbh, with a 4k budget I'd probably get a tidy e36 m3 EVO if it was me.. 320hp n/a straight 6 mmm...

[Tom]

320 you say?? O:

---

So possibilitys so far:

Ep3
Megane 225
Leon Cupra R
Audi S3

S14, if one comes up.

[1616six]

I would recommend driving an ep3 before you get your heart set on one, they are different to most cars to drive. Not in a bad way, just different.

[silverzx]

^^
That's fair enough, I'd agree that over sharp bumps it can be a little skittish but I think that's more down to the low profile tyres on the 18's and how I've got my damping setup currently, I imagine with 17's with a slightly thicker sidewall the handling would improve further but in stock guise it was very planted even over sharp bumps (that was on 14 year old dampers/springs too). The independent suspension also means if you hit a bump with one wheel, the entire car doesn't jump or skip. In stock guise you do 'feel' the weight more due the aforementioned roll but you can pick up a set of eibach for the same price as you could for a 306 (and easy to fit.. no TB's FTW!!) which would sharpen up and reduce the roll to no end and cheaply, but keeping it comfortable.

I was a little 'worried' as to the difference between FWD and RWD especially given a 306 and a '46 are so different but it's just something to get used to, you can use the throttle pedal to help push the back round, but they aren't as tail happy as most people expect and generally will understeer before oversteering as they're setup for grip (not to say you can't get them sideways however..)

I would say (dare i?) that coming on/off the throttle is a lot more stable in a '46 than say a GTi6, but I think a lot of that is down to the weight distribution.. GTi is like nearly 70% front weight? Where as '46 (in fact basically all bimmer) is 50/50.

"Do you even drift bro!?"

S14, if one comes up.

Do you even read bro!?

[Tom]

I would recommend driving an ep3 before you get your heart set on one, they are different to most cars to drive. Not in a bad way, just different.

I have driven one and loved it. Just didnt realise i could get so much more for my money.

^^
That's fair enough, I'd agree that over sharp bumps it can be a little skittish but I think that's more down to the low profile tyres on the 18's and how I've got my damping setup currently, I imagine with 17's with a slightly thicker sidewall the handling would improve further but in stock guise it was very planted even over sharp bumps (that was on 14 year old dampers/springs too). The independent suspension also means if you hit a bump with one wheel, the entire car doesn't jump or skip. In stock guise you do 'feel' the weight more due the aforementioned roll but you can pick up a set of eibach for the same price as you could for a 306 (and easy to fit.. no TB's FTW!!) which would sharpen up and reduce the roll to no end and cheaply, but keeping it comfortable.

I was a little 'worried' as to the difference between FWD and RWD especially given a 306 and a '46 are so different but it's just something to get used to, you can use the throttle pedal to help push the back round, but they aren't as tail happy as most people expect and generally will understeer before oversteering as they're setup for grip (not to say you can't get them sideways however..)

I would say (dare i?) that coming on/off the throttle is a lot more stable in a '46 than say a GTi6, but I think a lot of that is down to the weight distribution.. GTi is like nearly 70% front weight? Where as '46 (in fact basically all bimmer) is 50/50.

"Do you even drift bro!?"

S14, if one comes up.

Do you even read bro!?

I do, sometimes... Nice of you to offer but i dont want a red one

On the subject of cars though, look what i just found...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-S3-QUATTR...338e5e393c

That has swayed me alot...

[silverzx]

Red is the colour of kings.

You'll learn this if you ever own a red car thats fast.

[C.A.R.]

On the subject of cars though, look what i just found...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-S3-QUATTR...338e5e393c

That has swayed me alot...

It's just a posh Golf with a Haldex 4wd system isn't it? Or is the S3 a 'proper' quattro (ie. permanent 4wd?)

That's a lot of miles.

If you want something 'proper 4wd' then how about the Chav's Delight; a Scooby? They will out-steer an S3 and put the power down a lot easier. Downsides is that they're not as easy to work on, often hard to find one which has been well looked after and they do have that 'image'.

The mileage on that S3 opens up a world of other cars - I thought you were looking for something with less.
BMW 840Ci? Creamy V8 smoothness...
Audi S4?
Mazda 6 MPS?
BMW Z4 3.0?
VW Golf MK5 GTI?

[Tom]

Im really not a milage whore, its the age that bothers me.

[Curt]

There's so much speculation and uneducated bullshit in this thread now, I can't even be bothered to wade in.

All I'll say is, if you haven't actually owned/driven the car you're putting down, don't do it?

Oh, and how is that S3 high mileage?! It's well below average.

Tom, go and drive anything you're interested in, bias opinions really don't get you anywhere.

[Tom]

This was mostly for ideas for cars in particular, i do like hearing peoples opinions aswell. Your input would be appreciated Curt if you fancy :p i thought 100k is average/low milage for cars these days.

[Seb_Ryan]

Some alfa v6? Gt or something like that?

Edit:

Like this?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vie...GB&alt=web

[Curt]

I understand getting ideas completely, that's not what I take issue with. My problem is people giving "first hand experience" style opinions when they don't know what they're talking about.

Personally, that's not high at all. I'd consider it pretty low. My 1.8T is on 156k and I don't doubt it could do that again, because I look after it. On that note, I love mine. They're great engines. The cars themselves are a very nice place to be, as well. They're such good all-rounders. I'd have an S3 or my A3 over a Scooby any day.

I think you should drive a VTEC car if you haven't already. As you're used to a turbo, the driving experience is completely different and not suited to everybody. Personally, I love the ring-it's-neck driving experience and linear power delivery you get from a decent NA petrol. Especially with variable timing.

Another car that I think you should try would be a Celica GT-4, if you can find a decent one in budget. Cracking cars, I will own one.

I think the best thing you can do is make a shortlist, then go and try and have a go/get a ride in them .

[devils_fuel]

Some alfa v6? Gt or something like that?

Edit:

Like this?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vie...GB&alt=web

This Tom but get the derv GT blackline (top of the range sports), oodles of power and torque, great mpg's and reliable if looked after. My neighbour had one before he sold up and moved abroad - if I had 5k a year ago I would have bought it without thinking!

---

But what curt said...get a list and go get test piloting !

There's a wicked tommy makinen evo in Bristol, mint low miles and think it under 4k if interested?

[Seb_Ryan]

I was gonna say derv but he said as long as it does 20 mpg..and plus alfa v6s sound pure porn..

[devils_fuel]

True seb, I worked in an Alfa specialist when v6 75 veloces and GTV's were common...much visual and audio porn

[MrsMidnight]

Another car that I think you should try would be a Celica GT-4, if you can find a decent one in budget. Cracking cars, I will own one.

These are pretty epic, mate had one and the acceleration was nuts and could hold its own in the corners. That said he blew two engines and then broke it for parts in less than a year

EDIT: From Midnightclub, f*cking Emma.. ¬_¬

[Curt]

They more than hold their own... To clarify, I'm talking about the ST205. That's the one I'd have, anyway.

[Midnightclub]

In fairness my mate only had T1-R's on his so they were holding it back, but he had a white ST205, did a FMIC conversion amongst a few other things.. Both engines died of bottom end failure though, shame really as the 2nd one was a low miler from japan.. cost a bomb

EDIT: managed to find a pic with the HDi day he picked it up

[Tom]

Celicas are ugly dont like them... These S3's on the other hand, the more i look into them the more i like, massive spec on them, remapped they're about 260ish bhp...

[Just Sean]

Same as any 1.8t... Cupra r etc.

[Midnightclub]

Could you not just get a 1.8t Quattro A3? It would be a lot cheaper for essentially the same car

[Just Sean]

If you are looking at something 1.8t make sure it's got the later bam engine as its stronger.

Not sure if Audi used the auq engine but I no seat did.

I think I'm right in saying that the auq is 210 and bam is 225bhp.

---

They're good for up to around 350 on stock internals from what I've been reading

[Tom]

The S3 seems to come with alot of toys aswell, leather, electric everything, bose sound etc. Thanks Sean will look into the engines.