Info on a cam.

[Foxy-jim]

Exactly its the sound that has got me wanting them!

Rip have you looked into cams for yours?

[Rippthrough]

Yeah, but imo it's not worth doing until you've sorted the head out, intake length, exhaust manifold etc, and the revs you're running to, they all interact with the cam so just slapping a fast road cam in might see you wanting something completely different one the bodies, etc, are on.
I'm prepping the car for the cam I have in mind but leaving that until the last purchase to finally tie everything together.

[Foxy-jim]

Ah right I see what you mean. I'm going to get my head skimmed again to raise the compression, plus port it out. Should make a bit of a difference!

[kingy]

without wanting to jack the thread, i have the 1.6 8v. what work is involved in turboing it. is it the same as jim lads 1.4?

[Foxy-jim]

Ye kingy they are basically the same engine! Thought you were dropping a 1.6 16v in? There are turbo kits for our engines for sale for £1550 in pfc magazine!

[kingy]

was/ am thinking about a 6, but now ive been reading about BOOST i think i want some of that. what kinda bhp you get from ones of these turbo kits you speak of pray tell.

[Jonny b]

Around 150/60 on a 1.6 iirc

[Foxy-jim]

I'm sure you could do it a bit cheaper then that!

I'm not 100% sure, you wouldn't be able to run high boost as the later tu 8v engines have really weak conrods so would just spit them out. Someone more knowledgable would know more then me. On your engine you could probably hit 130bhp ish low boost.

[kingy]

extra 30 bhp for 1.5k. mmmmm back to the 6 transplant i think. and later on i could super charge that. ahhh wake up wayne,

[Dum-Dum]

And DUM just NO.

1.8s shit themselves everytime you modify the inlet/exhaust on em without going standalone, because it cant regulate the fuel and runs rich and fucks em.

you CAN re-use the sensors, but again as I've already said, without adjusting the fuelling parameters to take into account the increase in air, you wont neccessarily get any more power, and you will long-term run rich/lean at different points in the rev range and will f*ck the engine.

Really? Id thought there was loads of 1.8 owners on here running GTi6 Manifolds and making good power with no issues.

Also I thought the lambada plugged into the exhaust and the ECU worked out if you were running rich or lean and adjusted the fueling accordingly?












Jim.

Are you going R6 bodies or R6 carbs, have you even considered the carbs so you wouldnt need full management you could run on a megajolt system or similar and so you could do the whole set up for under £250 if you know a welder.

[Foxy-jim]

You may get a bit more out of it with more boost. But how long the engine would last before you needs forged rods, pistons etc is questionable.

I did read somewhere that you can get these to around 200bhp and they will be fine but with forged rods.

[Foxy-jim]

Jim.

Are you going R6 bodies or R6 carbs, have you even considered the carbs so you wouldnt need full management you could run on a megajolt system or similar and so you could do the whole set up for under £250 if you know a welder.

I haven't thought about carbs to be fair. Would be a cheaper option. But wouldn't I need to convert it to ht leads rather then coilpacks? And what are the power difference between bike carbs and bike throttle bodies?

[Matt]

Just boost it already!!!! Haha I'm tempted to pick one up an boost it without doing internals and see how long I can rag it for till it pops

[Dum-Dum]

Jim.

Are you going R6 bodies or R6 carbs, have you even considered the carbs so you wouldnt need full management you could run on a megajolt system or similar and so you could do the whole set up for under £250 if you know a welder.

I haven't thought about carbs to be fair. Would be a cheaper option. But wouldn't I need to convert it to ht leads rather then coilpacks? And what are the power difference between bike carbs and bike throttle bodies?

I *think* megajolt will run coil packs. If not it runs a Ford EDIS Module (electronic distrobutorless ignition system) unit and you can add leads from there. Read up on fitting a megajolt system.

The power difference will be very very small and the economy will be slightly worse.

Think running a XUD mechanical bosh pump compared to a HDi common rail system. The HDi is technically more tuneable and more economical but the ECU is a pita so people prefer the bosch as its easier to tune.

Make sense?

[Niall]

And DUM just NO.

1.8s shit themselves everytime you modify the inlet/exhaust on em without going standalone, because it cant regulate the fuel and runs rich and fucks em.

you CAN re-use the sensors, but again as I've already said, without adjusting the fuelling parameters to take into account the increase in air, you wont neccessarily get any more power, and you will long-term run rich/lean at different points in the rev range and will f*ck the engine.

Ed as much as I love you mate, what you have just said is utter bollocks.
I'm running different manifolds on my 1.8 and ir runs faultlessly except for a dodgy ICV.
I didn't just bolt it on. I did a lot of research into it after some of the stories I read including looking into the set parameters on the base map and it can easily handle it.
Mine at the moment is running very clean and not rich or lean at all (ignoring the fact my oil seals have gone and it's burning oil but that's being sorted next month)
Sorry mate but I can't stand it when people say these things when they haven't looked into it. If you were running gti injectors then you would be correct as they have a higher flow which the engine management can't detect.

[Midnightclub]

Jim, you can get forged rods for £320

EDIT: That was for a 1.6 16v my bad

[Foxy-jim]

Ye I get what you mean dum dum I will have a look into it and see what I can find out! Cheers for the help people!

I know they are different, but I have put on a bigger vtr inlet manifold on my engine and it has made a massive difference to power and it doesn't run lean or overfuel at all!

[Chris]

What about the 1.6 THP engines?
TU based, 150, 175, and 200 bhp out the box in some of the newer ones?

The 175 (207 gti) version maps to over 200 on the standard ECU.
Should be easy to wire up if you run a after market ECU too.

[Midnightclub]

Got a feeling they'll be £££ to buy though + aftermarket management costs

EDIT: 1.6 16v... CHEAP and only done 29k http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-Citro ... _686wt_840

[Niall]

That would be an epic project but getting it to run could be a bastard. Still, I'm willing to help get the wiring sorted

[Ed Doe]

Ed as much as I love you mate, what you have just said is utter bollocks.
I'm running different manifolds on my 1.8 and ir runs faultlessly except for a dodgy ICV.
I didn't just bolt it on. I did a lot of research into it after some of the stories I read including looking into the set parameters on the base map and it can easily handle it.
Mine at the moment is running very clean and not rich or lean at all (ignoring the fact my oil seals have gone and it's burning oil but that's being sorted next month)
Sorry mate but I can't stand it when people say these things when they haven't looked into it. If you were running gti injectors then you would be correct as they have a higher flow which the engine management can't detect.

Dunno if you remember that C.A.R off pugnet, and possibly kicking about on here?

He had a black 1.8xs with the inlet mani and exhaust mani. he got mega borewash and the car shit itself.
So he bought a 1.8 cab and the same thing happened iirc.
and then there was Adam, who you probs wont remember; he had a MINT 1.8 which he did the same thing, and that shit itself too iirc.
And I could've sworn yours was running really rich last time I saw you?? Might be my imagination, but it was pretty honking when I was behind you (just before you cut out on the roundabout!! lol)

Anyways, on the above evidence, I was under the impression it was a very bad idea, but as you say, I haven't researched into it so I'm open to the concept that I may be wrong...


If i am, then Dum I apologise for shooting you down with my opinionated rant!!

But AFAIK, the ecu has a 'base value' for the amount of fuel it can deliver at a given throttle position at a particular rpm. It can 'trim' the fuel value to a certain tolerance by taking into account the maf sensor reading and the lambda sensor reading, so it keeps the afr as close to perfect as possible. IIRC the ecu's certainly on the '6 are very good at 'learning' so they optimise the fuelling trim depending on how you drive.

However, as I was aware, the fuel can only be trimmed a small amount, so in order to take advantage of manifold changes etc, you have to alter the 'base' fuel parameters on the map. Hence, sticking cams or bodies or different manifolds on an engine wihtout a re-map will affect how much air can get into the engine, but if it is significantly more than the fuelling trim can work with, it'll run lean, which will be bad for the car.

I'm pretty certain I've got this right, but again I'm open to corrections; I'm on here to learn just as much as everyone else!!!

[Foxy-jim]

I could use a newer engine Chris, but as sad I hunk they will be pretty expensive. Thinking of sticking with the tu 8v ATM and will work with that for now and see what I can do!

[Midnightclub]

I could use a newer engine Chris, but as sad I hunk they will be pretty expensive. Thinking of sticking with the tu 8v ATM and will work with that for now and see what I can do!

Did you see the link i posted? £240 for a 1.6 16v with 20odd k on the clock

[Foxy-jim]

Ye I saw it, but I'm not keen on the 16v engine!

[Niall]

Ed, iirc they were running gti injectors with there's, which will make it run like crap!
You are correct about the base values however they are quite wide on the 1.8 and I also believe most over Peugeot ECUs from that era.
Oh and what you could probably smell was my exhaust. I had only had it a few days and it stank to high heaven. I did actually think it was running horridly rich.
Admittedly if you looked at it now, it's not running well but it is burning oil due to a dodgy valve guide seal. It's really quite unhappy at the moment
Not trying to argue mate, just want to get my info that I found out there so that if others see it that want to do it, they can make up there own mind based on what we've said!

[Toms306]

Just read right through this, pretty interesting tbh! Also, what's stopping people using a '6 ECU with the injectors and mani's on a 1.8? I know you'd probably have to disable the immob unless you can alter it to suit a different car.

[Niall]

Just read right through this, pretty interesting tbh! Also, what's stopping people using a '6 ECU with the injectors and mani's on a 1.8? I know you'd probably have to disable the immob unless you can alter it to suit a different car.

Something I am currently looking into Tom. Will need different cams though but will be posting about it when it's sorted

[Toms306]

Just read right through this, pretty interesting tbh! Also, what's stopping people using a '6 ECU with the injectors and mani's on a 1.8? I know you'd probably have to disable the immob unless you can alter it to suit a different car.

Something I am currently looking into Tom. Will need different cams though but will be posting about it when it's sorted

Ah ok, cool.

[Dum-Dum]

Ed: IIRC both CAR and Adam used GTi injectors that do pour in the fuel massively.

There are many people running GTi manifolds with no issue. I only have the inlet but mine runs fine (it dosent stink of fuel like Matts). Also mine has been on the dyno since and is making a few bhp better than standard (great for a 100k car) and the AFR is slightly RICH in places, the graph is below for you to have a look.

IIRC 13-14 is considered ideal.

[attachment=0]




And heres the graph of JPs missus' GTi6 for comparison.







And yes the ECU can only self learn and trim so much but IMO if mine is running a little rich then theres plenty of scope for it learning with mods or burning that little extra fuel thats already there.





Edit; cos im a secret GTi wannaB can I just point out that ATW im only 10bhp off her GTi

[Ed Doe]

^^ LOL, that gti was WAYYYY down on power though!!! Just to piss on your parade