Has anyone had their XUD chuck a HDI rod?

[Parksy87]

Iv got a set of hdi rods whoch i plan on putting into my xud my excuse is 'piece of mind' but a few people have said if its gonna chuck a rod its gonna chuck a rod regardless, has anyone them selves had their xud chuck a hdi rod or know of anyone that has also what where you/they running power and mod wise?

Im going to assume darren has done it whilst running silly mods and power :p

[darrenjlobb]

I spat a set of 8v hdi rods once, pretty sure Dave has also, there stronger, but not strong enough.

[Danny2009]

Darren's spat forged rods before, pretty sure someone had spat a hdi rod not sure who it was

[Mattcheese31]

Darren's spat forged rods before, pretty sure someone had spat a hdi rod not sure who it was

narr he didn't spit the forged ones i don't think . . .

[Toms306]

I still have a set of HDi rods spare if anyone fancies trying it.

[Danny2009]

I may be getting confused with the hdi rods sure he will clear that up, if its going to make a break for it they will xud's are easy and cheap to come by when it does

I was thinking other day what we all going to do when there getting hard to come by once they made a break for it the engines scrap and there not in production anymore so all we have is what's left? Lucky enough I have 4 ATM

[Ruan]

Lol, I don't think there'll ever be a shortage of HDi or XUD rods... Considering how many engines were made lol!

XUDs are like dog shit, they're everywhere, that's why they're SO good.

[Parksy87]

I spat a set of 8v hdi rods once, pretty sure Dave has also, there stronger, but not strong enough.

Was that with both turbos and the charger? Or just one of the above, any idea what it was running at powerwise when it did it?

[darrenjlobb]

Single turbo, around 220hp when it let go.

But pretty sure i bent the rod when i locked it on oil a few days before, so kinda open to debate...I think it would have been ok at that power level otherwise.

[Ruan]

Yeah, to be fair I'm convinced it'd have been OK at that power for quite some time, it was the oil that caused the issue...

That "Stuck Injector" was probably bottom end knock LOL.

[Dave]

Still think it 100% depends how your tune them. A well tuned engine will last much longer on stock rods, such as how ruan had his setup, and how cj had his. Nice fuel delivery crisp burn with not too much advance top end. Start banging 11mm pumps fully advanced and it'll spit Hdi rods quickly as I found out.

[CJ_Derv]

I agree with dave totally it is possible to run stock rods with lower egts from a 9mm I never got to the stage of running an 11mm but would guess it wouldnt have lasted long with my right foot

And I believe there to be a few other engines other than peugeot that share the same rod dimensions as I was having a convo with another memebrr whilst stripping my engine thats just spat a standard stock rod at 149000 after 12month of 30+psi ang great fun sadly im movin on but twin turbos are on the next motor as standard

[Parksy87]

Do Td04/t25 etc only really benefit from a gov mod to reach peak/decent boost?

[Danny2009]

Gov mod is a must with a bigger blower

[Parksy87]

Looks like il definately be sticking with k14 and t2's then :p

[CJ_Derv]

K14 and t2 are oants mate look into vnt route!

[Parksy87]

Sounds expensive :p although i may do when iv killed the 2 k14's and t2

[CJ_Derv]

Get a TD04 and I got some cheap adaptors drilled incorrect goin cheap and get a t2 mani and elbow bolt it on n run lower boost than 35 like I was

[Danny2009]

I was running 25 psi on a td04 for 3 weeks and it spat a rod but the previous car had more miles and was running 35psi+ for 6 months and was fine go figure

[Parksy87]

I was running 25 psi on a td04 for 3 weeks and it spat a rod but the previous car had more miles and was running 35psi+ for 6 months and was fine go figure

Xud or hdi rod on that occaision danny?

[Danny2009]

Both standard xud

[Parksy87]

Seem to see alot of the xud rods going and not lasting very long at upto 170 ish yet going by the facts iv seen a few stage 2 hdi's only having issues with the lifters i know hdi's are more refined but as i said id like to do it for piece of mind, definately no plans on going 11mm unlikely to gov mod or bigger blower any time soon, its a daily but wouldnt mind more poke without thinking is it going to pop

Engine is currently a few miles off 190k when the rods go in im planning to put new shells, piston rings, valve stem seals cam and crank seals, skimm and pressure test on the head (new gasket and head bolts obviously) anything else worth doing? Not sure if i read somewhere about the hdi oil pump/pick up in the xud block or was i imagining it?

[CJ_Derv]

You can get a 6 bar oil pump spring osl

[Toms306]

If I've understood correctly, the XUD puts more 'instant' pressure on the piston (and rod) than the HDi. The Hdi reduces knock by having pre-injections and the knock sensor will also stop it knocking badly...with the XUD its just up to the person changing the fuelling. And surely pre-igniting puts massive strain on the rod as its still being pushed up by the crank as the explosion is trying to push it back down again.

Does that make sense? Just thinking that might be why HDi's don't seem to break rods even at the same sort of power increase?

If I'm completely wrong then fair enough lol.

[darrenjlobb]

HDI's make the same power with alot less stress. They have lower compression to start with, and you run much less boost to make the same power, therefore overall cylinder pressures are much lower....and this is what kills them through bending the rods over time and eventually letting go. Ive pulled many high boost xuds apart and found bent rods, just the first stage of it before they evetually give in and brake.

The first thing anyone will notice when moving from IDI to DI, is how much "free'er" the motor is, can just run 20psi and make the same power levels as the XUD is STRUGGLING to make reliability at 40psi +, this is why xuds constantly spit rods.

[Parksy87]

Ah makes sense hence why too much static advance is bad? I can get them going but this tuning malarky is a bit over my head hence why if kept it running 12 psi for the last 4 years with just the max fuel turned up a bit

[CJ_Derv]

Its also lucl of the draw as ive had a totally standard xud throw a rod untuned

IMO running a 9mm pump its not critical if you run the pump fully advanced on the stock slots mine was fairly advanced and held 30psi for 12 months and engine hadnt been looked after before I got the car it had a lucas running veg when I bought it lol

I was speaking to a diesel specialist who thinks my failure was due to running veg over last 4 months and big boost but I dont know il be stripping engine soon to see if theres any tell tale signs of what caused the rod to fail but it didnt half go with a bang

[Ruan]

If I've understood correctly, the XUD puts more 'instant' pressure on the piston (and rod) than the HDi. The Hdi reduces knock by having pre-injections and the knock sensor will also stop it knocking badly...with the XUD its just up to the person changing the fuelling. And surely pre-igniting puts massive strain on the rod as its still being pushed up by the crank as the explosion is trying to push it back down again.

Does that make sense? Just thinking that might be why HDi's don't seem to break rods even at the same sort of power increase?

If I'm completely wrong then fair enough lol.

There's no knock sensor, but essentially yes... There's no way of pre-igniting a diesel... Pre-ignition indicates an "uncontrolled" and "unwanted" burn of the fuel, Diesels will simply burn the fuel when you spray it in, if you spray it in at the wrong time, that's either too advanced or too retarded... You can't "pre-ignite"... Remember at full load at high RPMs, you'll be seeing the fuel going in near 15* BTDC!

Well, yes and no... Infact the peak pressure of a HDi for the same power level is actually probably higher, DIs burn their fuel quicker, when it goes in, it all goes off at once whereas IDI can get away with a much longer injection window since they've got a precup to keep the heat for continued combustion - something that a DI cannot do - you've got a mega short window in which to get the fuel in before the piston has dropped and that heat from the compression has disappeared.

Listen to a transit van vs an xud with regards to "clack" the XUD is much more muted, this is because it's not burning all the fuel in one massive clump...

However, the compression strain constantly applied to an XUD is what kills them, 21:1 compression ratio, 30lbs of boost, all the heat that goes with - it's all a recipe for causing mental high average cylinder pressures.

HOWEVER as previously pointed out, XUDs are at a disposition, I've seen STOCK ones with banana rods... There WAS a fault in the forging process that causes this, it's nothing to do with the fact that the engines as stock are strained more... If you put HDi rods in every stock DT out there, I rekon you'd near enough never see another random rod failure...

[Parksy87]

So far it settled it for me il definately be throwing the hdi rods in, ad aslong as i dont lock it up on oill n run 220 i should be ok so:
Rings
Shells
Valve stem seals
Crank seals
Cam seals
HG
Bolts
Anything else i should look at changing?

[Toms306]

If I've understood correctly, the XUD puts more 'instant' pressure on the piston (and rod) than the HDi. The Hdi reduces knock by having pre-injections and the knock sensor will also stop it knocking badly...with the XUD its just up to the person changing the fuelling. And surely pre-igniting puts massive strain on the rod as its still being pushed up by the crank as the explosion is trying to push it back down again.

Does that make sense? Just thinking that might be why HDi's don't seem to break rods even at the same sort of power increase?

If I'm completely wrong then fair enough lol.

There's no knock sensor, but essentially yes... There's no way of pre-igniting a diesel... Pre-ignition indicates an "uncontrolled" and "unwanted" burn of the fuel, Diesels will simply burn the fuel when you spray it in, if you spray it in at the wrong time, that's either too advanced or too retarded... You can't "pre-ignite"... Remember at full load at high RPMs, you'll be seeing the fuel going in near 15* BTDC!

Well, yes and no... Infact the peak pressure of a HDi for the same power level is actually probably higher, DIs burn their fuel quicker, when it goes in, it all goes off at once whereas IDI can get away with a much longer injection window since they've got a precup to keep the heat for continued combustion - something that a DI cannot do - you've got a mega short window in which to get the fuel in before the piston has dropped and that heat from the compression has disappeared.

Listen to a transit van vs an xud with regards to "clack" the XUD is much more muted, this is because it's not burning all the fuel in one massive clump...

However, the compression strain constantly applied to an XUD is what kills them, 21:1 compression ratio, 30lbs of boost, all the heat that goes with - it's all a recipe for causing mental high average cylinder pressures.

HOWEVER as previously pointed out, XUDs are at a disposition, I've seen STOCK ones with banana rods... There WAS a fault in the forging process that causes this, it's nothing to do with the fact that the engines as stock are strained more... If you put HDi rods in every stock DT out there, I rekon you'd near enough never see another random rod failure...

Ah ok, cheers for clearing that up Ruan.