Removing whole track rod?

[306Puggy]

Just a quick question, I'm in a bit of a predicament with my car at the moment. Long story short, went to remove the track rod end but found the nut seized which I was able to loosen and remove, but now the track rod end is seized solid in the track rod. I have tried the following:

Plusgas (well diesel but close enough) overnight, loads
Heat with blowtorch for 5 minutes then try to undo
Heat with blowtorch for 10 minutes then try to undo
Heat with blowtorch for 5 minutes then rapidly cool with water
Held the track rod with molegrips and relentlessly pounded on the track rod end's thread/shank to try to knock it free

Normally I would get on with replacing the whole track rod but for some reason the Haynes gives it a 4 spanner rating? If it is gonna take a whole day then I might wait until I can buy a map gas torch tomorrow which is said to be hotter than propane torches and give that a try but if it's only a couple of hours then I will do it. But I am seriously wondering if it has been welded in for some reason? But there are no signs of that.

This is where the Haynes gives it 4 spanners, even though there is not much of a writeup:

[Piggy]

shouldnt really use heat on steering components thus probably want to renew it anyway.

its not difficult...just tricking and difficult with space.

remove the boot.
use a screwdriver to try and flick out the 'teeth' on the securing ring and then either some hefty grips to undo it or use a good chisel to get it moving then grips after that.

[306Puggy]

Hmm, didn't know about the heat thing! Sounds easy from your description. Just means I've got to get one ordered, as long as I can get the old one out today it shouldn't be too bad. And what about steering/alignment after that? Will it put it out more than just doing an outer track rod? Thanks.

[Piggy]

always needs doing after steering/suspension components replaced

worth ordering a new boot while you at it, only couple quid

[306Puggy]

Right got the clip off, boot still won't come off? The Haynes is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

[Piggy]

yup it is.

if you are replacing the boot, just cut it off!!!

re:clip...I was referring to clip which locks the inner joint onto rack!

[306Puggy]

Just been out, got pliers on the boot and it's still not moving. I think I can feel a metal clip on the other side of it? How the actual f*ck am I meant to access it? There is literally no space? Please don't say going underneath the car. I was NOT planning to go underneath the car this weekend! And I can't anyway because the axle stand is in the way.

[Piggy]

slide under from front...two clips hold it, one either end or it would just pop off!

---

or slide from side...easy enough

[306Puggy]

Right, managed to tap it from the side and it has come loose but I can't get it off. It also appears that the boot sits in grooves on the track rod which makes it even harder because I will have to slit the inside side of the boot and I can't even get in there. The gaps in the subframe are too small to move my hands around in. I was thinking of giving up.

[Piggy]

have you tried turning the steering full lock to the right??

[306Puggy]

Right, I pulled hard on the dust cover with both hands and it came off. But there doesn't seem to be a nut on the inner ball joint?
   
   
   
   
   
   

Gonna buy one of these to put it back on, is there anyway I can get it undone now though?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steering-Rack-...3cd1833770

Edit: Piggy, good idea there! With the axle stand under the subframe both wheels are off the ground anyway, so no reason not to! Should make getting the clips back on easier as well.

Right, been outside again to have a look, still can't see anyway of removing the track rod, not sure how to proceed?

[daddyfixit]

its the big round thing that you have to undo, its threaded onto the rack itself. sometimes you can get in with visegrips or even a small pair of stilsons........otherwise there is a special tool that costs upwards of about £40----its like a long tube that slips over the track rod and grips the circular collar to undo it.

[306Puggy]

That must be the one that I linked to, yeah. I am thinking of getting one purely so that I can tighten it up to the correct torque when I put it back together. Okay, I'll try to get on with undoing that, thanks. Edit: Been out again, can't get any purchase on it. Molegrips are too small. Gonna have to order some stilsons online and the trackrod removal tool. Just when I thought this was gonna be a cheap trackrod end replacement job! :angry:

Edit 2: If you go to carparts4less.co.uk, can you enter this part number (can't link it because it is session based):

612540101

And tell me what the hell is up with their steering boots that they look like a rubber seal for something completely different? Is it just a mistake or is there some other obscure steering component that uses a rubber seal that looks like that?

Edit 3: Right, just cutting off the old track rod end, frigging hacksaw broken, now gotta buy a new hacksaw, might as well get a quality Bahco one, trouble is it's £20 quid! Funny how a simple track rod end change can go to this! Add the hacksaw onto the special tool and that's £50 pounds just on tools. Was quoted 71 pounds from Halfords autocentre so getting scarily close to that! Unless anyone has any other suggestions?

[Piggy]

why are you cutting it off??

we get annoyed with you coz you dont friggin listen.

I have already told you how to remove it.

read again!!!

you dont need special tools!

[306Puggy]

And I get annoyed with you because if I miss ONE SINGLE FRIGGING THING you get on my back like theres no tomorrow. I am not a frigging computer you know I cannot remember or read 100% accurately! I need to cut the track rod end so that I can get the special tool over the track rod, otherwise the track rod end will prevent me from getting the tool over the track rod.

As for reading again I am guessing this is the post to which you are referring:

shouldnt really use heat on steering components thus probably want to renew it anyway.

its not difficult...just tricking and difficult with space.

remove the boot.
use a screwdriver to try and flick out the 'teeth' on the securing ring and then either some hefty grips to undo it or use a good chisel to get it moving then grips after that.

I am finding it hard to visualize what you mean by flicking out the teeth. And I can't see a securing ring either. I really don't want to damage the steering rack. I'm not ignoring what you are trying to tell me but if I don't understand a post I tend to forget about it completely. IT IS NOT DELIBRATE!!!

[Piggy]

alright, keep ya toys in the pram.

you do it reguarly, ask for answers but dont read them.


the securing clip/ring sits between end of the joint and rack.
if you dont try and loosen it, no tool will get it undone.

or if you do you will likely break the clip/ring and the new track rods often dont come with a new ring/clip.

I didnt say anything about damaging ya rack!

[ConorTRG]

Put an axle stand under the tie rod, rest the end of it on the stand where the end is screwed in. And give it good thumps of a heavy hammer while turning it, thatll get the track rod do of.

[306Puggy]

Right, just gone back out, there feels like there is some sort of circlip directly behind the inner ball joint which is rotating freely. Although I can barely get my fingers on it so hell knows how I will be able to get it off/back on again! I'm not sure how to get the screwdriver on there.

[Piggy]

if its rotating freely then its free!

now get ya man bags out and get it undone!

[306Puggy]

But there is no flat surface on the ball joint housing which was what I was referring to the special tool for. Also, my molegrips aren't large enough to go round it. MOT retest is booked for the 23rd but also gotta get on with cleaning up the brakes and rebedding them in and doing the droplink, not to mention the fact that I would prefer not to have to walk to work when work already involves a lot of walking as it is!

[Piggy]

you need to get a chisel, as said, on the edge of it, and give it a wack to start it off...you not got some huge water pump like plumbers grips??...be cheaper and more useful to buy too than that expensive tool you will only use once

[306Puggy]

These yeah:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250mm-10-Plumb...589b921fde

Gonna be awkward to get in there but for a £5er it's worth a try.

Which edge should I chisel?

This edge?

[Puggie]

Right mate i had the same problems

could i f*ck get near it to loosen in the end i took the control arm off and it gave me enough space to get some stilsons in there were talking a few mm extra that's all

Very little effort to loosen it if i am honest once you get the right angle wich you can with the arm off. bit of a f*ck on but it took less time than i had already wasted pissing about

[Piggy]

any edge. inner is better.

those grips with strong forearms will do it...mine are 300mm and have done dozens with ease.

not sure if you have tried it, but have you tried either full lock to see if access is better?

[306Puggy]

Right mate i had the same problems

could i f*ck get near it to loosen in the end i took the control arm off and it gave me enough space to get some stilsons in there were talking a few mm extra that's all

Very little effort to loosen it if i am honest once you get the right angle wich you can with the arm off. bit of a f*ck on but it took less time than i had already wasted pissing about

Hi mate thanks for the advice, I will certainly try that if attacking it with a chisel doesn't work (might not be able to get the angle like you said).

any edge. inner is better.

those grips with strong forearms will do it...mine are 300mm and have done dozens with ease.

not sure if you have tried it, but have you tried either full lock to see if access is better?

Can't see how I will get to the inner edge with the chisel piggy. My forearms are good from my deadlifting years lol. I have the steering on full lock now, not when that picture was taken. I'll get the grips bought, thanks.

[Piggy]

brute force and muchas ignorance!

[306Puggy]

Just one more thing for now, how do I torque it up when I put it back? Or should I just do it "bastard tight" using the pliers with lashings of threadlock?

[Piggy]

threadlock isnt needed due to the locking ring!

just make sure you flick/bend the teeth on the locking ring back into shape

then tighten till you cant no more!

[ginge191]

And I get annoyed with you because if I miss ONE SINGLE FRIGGING THING you get on my back like theres no tomorrow. I am not a frigging computer you know I cannot remember or read 100% accurately! I need to cut the track rod end so

He's back one day

If something isn't budging, especially a TRE; do not chop anything off. Keep on with WD40/penetration fluid on the TRE. It will budge.

[Niall]

And I get annoyed with you because if I miss ONE SINGLE FRIGGING THING you get on my back like theres no tomorrow. I am not a frigging computer you know I cannot remember or read 100% accurately! I need to cut the track rod end so

He's back one day

If something isn't budging, especially a TRE; do not chop anything off. Keep on with WD40/penetration fluid on the TRE. It will budge.

Stop trying to poke the bear please ginge. And likewise, piggy and puggy im starting to feel like a school teacher having to split up the two kids that always fight! Just chill out!