Show me some dyno print outs

[ste91]

Just out of interest as this isn't my car but I've posted here before regarding the MG/Rover L series diesel engines - this is a dyno graph of one that has been tuned a bit more than most on the Rover forum, the mod list is something like this:

GT1752 hybrid turbo (with a different turbine housing so that it's a direct bolt on) running at 22 psi
FMIC
Decat
Injectors from an earlier SDi L series (common mod)
+ remap

It's currently at 180bhp, can you guys with TD04's and GT20's and other similar turbos post up your dyno graphs please?




The red and blue lines simply show before and after being remapped.

[4WayDiablo]

I think most on a td04 usually run a bit less at 170ish
However given a hybrid I think jamma's on a hybrid turbo hit 209?

As for graphs go I can't help

[Danny2009]

177 Bhp and 247lb ft torque on a lashed up pump



Think with it set up better theres more power to gain

[ste91]

Ah yeah I forgot about JP's T25 hybrid!

Anything between 165-195 is what I want to compare, power/torque curves rather than just the peak numbers.

Most MG/Rover L series are running either 130ish bhp with a so called "stage one" tune (decat, 19 psi on standard GT15 turbo, SDi injectors) or up to 150 bhp with the previous mods plus remap and maybe FMIC/etc... this here is one of the very few to have an upgraded turbo that's actually been properly mapped and dyno'd.

[cwspellowe]

I think most on a td04 usually run a bit less at 170ish
However given a hybrid I think jamma's on a hybrid turbo hit 209?

As for graphs go I can't help

Once. Allegedly. On rollers of inconsistent accuracy. He also hardly ever ran that tune as things would go bang very quickly, i've been informed he used to turn it down on trackdays etc. It was also on a 9mm which, lets be fair, would have been pushed to the absolute limit for that kind of fuel delivery. We could all make crazy power if we were happy to risk shit breaking. Just sayin'..

TD04's could probably make that kind of power if you had no mechanical sympathy. I know my '56 could efficiently flow 190bhp if I had the fuelling for it, and if I wanted to ignore lessons i've previously learned I could throw an 11mm and 30psi at it and see what happens, would be damned close to what JP made anyway.

I think the question should be what dyno printouts do people have for their everyday tune..

[ste91]

Cheers Danny, that's the sort of thing I wanted to compare - straight away you can see how peaky your graph is compared to the one I posted, that's a TD04 I presume?

At 4k rpm the power is very similar but before that you can see the L series has a much wider spread of power - I guess that's down to being controlled by an ECU rather than mech pump? Or possibly that your turbo is a bit laggier?

[Anton]

You are now comparing a TD04 to a GT17...

Turbos are completely different. Danny is yours gov modded?

[cwspellowe]

You are now comparing a TD04 to a GT17...

Turbos are completely different. Danny is yours gov modded?

^what he said.

You can see the Rover peaks very early and drops in both torque and power further up the rev bad, the TD04 dyno shows a much later peak but a constant build of power up to 3.5krpm.

Midrange vs top end blowers though.

[ste91]

That's exactly what I wanted to compare, although on those two particular graphs the Rover only drops off maybe 100-200rpm earlier than the XUD - which is the sort of thing I wanted to see, as there's nothing to really compare to on the Rover forum as not many people really do anything, whereas you lot on here are into all sorts of turbo/twincharge setups!

[Piggy]

are we also not comparing xud indirect with rover direct injection?!

[ste91]

are we also not comparing xud indirect with rover direct injection?!

Yes but I'm not here to say one is better than the other or anything like that, the XUD is the closest thing I can think of to compare it to as a lot of VAG 1.9's are well over 200bhp and others like the old Ford 1.8's are a bit slow. I know there are a few XUD's in the 170-180 bhp region so they were the closest comparison.

[darrenjlobb]

A rover DI motor is in another league to the peugeot XUD IDI...

[Anton]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v363/t...33e6c0.png

This is zx_volcanes graph, TD04. Holds the power slightly higher up. Hence why i was questioning Dannys.

[Piggy]

^^^kinda what I was pointing out...

surely a hdi is a better comparison?!

[strictly_perv]

I think the OP isn't trying to get a fair comparison I think he's just comparing the 2 engines and setups and the power progression ect.

[Tom]

I think the OP isn't trying to get a fair comparison I think he's just comparing the 2 engines and setups and the power progression ect.

This is what i was thinking... For the hell of it type thing lol

[ste91]

^ Pretty much lol, no one on the MG/Rover forum has posted up any decent dyno graphs, most of them are "stuck" at the limit of the standard turbo (150ish bhp), only a handful of people have TD04 projects but again there are no dyno graphs, a few VNT projects but none are finished, whereas on here there are TD04's, GT20's, VNT's, and even twin charge setups.

[Jenkosowls]

177 Bhp and 247lb ft torque on a lashed up pump



Think with it set up better theres more power to gain

Cheeky twat that was the most you could get burning clean any more it would have been hanging on revs!

The dyno in question to is pretty spot on regular calibrated and in the rr day last October there was freashily rebuilt engines getting bang on book figures.

[Jenkosowls]

Bit of a modding diary here first up

Lucas pump
K14 at 20psi
Single box exhaust
"Mushroom" filter

120bhp 219 lbsft



Bosch pump
Govd
K14 on mbc 30psi
Single box exhaust
"Mushroom" Filter

136bhp 214lbsft


Bosch Pump
Govd
T25 Turbo 30psi
Single box exhaust
Un filtered

161bhp 208lbsft



Bosch pump
Govd
T25 turbo 30psi
Fmic
Single box exhaust
Unfiltered

173bhp 250lbsft



11mm Bosch pump
Govd
T25 turbo 20psi
Fmic
Single box exhaust
Unfiltered

Manifold leak and clogged fuel filter

170bhp 248lbsft

[darrenjlobb]

Only dyno run I have on paper, a very old one, but was when I had an XUD with td05 and low boost supercharger (before i fitted the win pulley, so very very laggy!) 213hp iirc, sadly never dyno'ed any other setup, other than the lol run at FCS, but thats fairly irrelevant!

[ste91]

Looking at those graphs a lot of them are quite peaky, is that a characteristic of the mechanical fuel pump, or simply the choice of turbo?

Also since I've only driven diesels with standard tiny turbos, what's it like with a big turbo just out of interest? Similar feel to a petrol with a big turbo or does it feel more/less sluggish off boost?

[strictly_perv]

Most of the graphs are from XUD's with big old-ish turbo's so not really ideally suited to a diesel but make a f*cking fun drive.
My 205's certainly not sluggish off boost because it's so light but I can't say for a 306

[Ruan]

In seriousness, the biggest difference here is the difference between the fact that the Rovers are on a VP37 pump, whereas our XUDs are on mechanical pumps... You can pull off all that midrange fuel whilst still having the fuel up high...

I'd love at some point to try an XUD on a VP37 and see how good you can make the power delivery... Also with the Rover pumps, the injection timing is electronic... A VE is purely done off case pressure which I'm convinced most XUDs are dropping from about 3k onwards...

You just cannot tailor the fuel delivery to the engine... You'll find most XUD owners on here actually control the delivery with their foot... Hence dyno graphs always are shit... Dyno operators cannot control them!!

[ste91]

^ It was the Rover 200/400/600 that had the VP37, the 25/45 and MG ZR/ZS have VP30's, but they are pretty similar as far as I am aware. Early Rovers had mech pumps much like the XUD's, but annoyingly they spin the opposite way!

I'd like to see what some of you on here could do if you got hold of an L series as a project, if you can get 200bhp+ out of an XUD and twin charge/VNT/etc... then I'm sure you could get some impressive numbers out of an L series.

There are a few good projects on the MG/R forum but there's more talk than torque lol.

[Ruan]

If they had the same sort of handling and flickableness as a 306 I would hhave one, but after driving a few I've always been left sorely disappointed...

And yeah, the reverse rotation is a Pita... Has anyone tried the 300tdi injector nozzles, supposedly theyre pretty huge...

[ste91]

Someone tried 300TDi or maybe it was 200TDi nozzles, it was very very smoky, although that was on a mech pump, I can't remember details now, maybe it would have been better if it was tried on a VP30/37 pump with a proper remap and bigger turbo.

"SDi" injectors are the most commonly used, from the 200/400/600 (VP37) swapped over to a 25/45/ZR/ZS (VP30) gives good results, around 25bhp+ on a standard engine, as shown on that dyno graph I posted they're good enough for 180bhp at least although it has been speculated that more fuelling would have given better power up top rather than a very flat power curve - you're more of an expert than me though so I'll let you answer that one lol.

[Ruan]

td05 and low boost supercharger (before i fitted the win pulley, so very very laggy!)

Hate to point out on your own car, that was un-supercharged LOL.

[strictly_perv]

[Ruan]

I bet 300TDi nozzles set up properly in the injectors would be a good choice tbf, it's just that the fuel is so uncontrollable on the mechanical setups that you can end up with chronic coal-age...

The thing with even the SDi and I'd even go to say the 300TDi nozzles is that even past 3500rpm or so, you've got such a short time period to get the fuel in, you will struggle with "small" nozzles... DI engines suffer so badly from this, which is why you see so many engines making ALL their power at around 3-3.5k because if you try and get the fuel in past there, the peak temperature and pressure has gone by the time you've finished injecting...

With "big" nozzles you may want to up the break pressure a little (note this will add to injection retard, so map will need to be adjusted to compensate) to get great atomization... With the correct tuning, you CAN make big nozzles work well, it's usually poor tuning that causes smoke and gutless-ness issues etc...

[Danny2009]

Mine was goved but dyno tester only took it to 4k