Alloys Discussion

[Niall]

What do you mean by tramlining?

the car pulling into ruts in the surface of the road. theres a road near me where it happens really badly. always catches me out!

[Ed Doe]

Honestly my car felt fantastic on the 17s. It was super direct, incredibly sharp and so progressive. I just felt in complete control of it at all times, whereas it feels a lot more wooly on the clones. I dunno I way preferred the way the car on the 17s! But it is more comfy on the clones!!

[Niall]

I just felt in complete control of it at all times!

[Curt]

It was the 15's fault

[Niall]

It was the 15's fault

he was lusting after 17s though

[Ed Doe]

Sigh


I still miss that car. Such an epic colour

[darrenjlobb]

Honestly my car felt fantastic on the 17s. It was super direct, incredibly sharp and so progressive. I just felt in complete control of it at all times, whereas it feels a lot more wooly on the clones. I dunno I way preferred the way the car on the 17s! But it is more comfy on the clones!!

Everyone goes on about paradas being pants / soft as turd, which maybe they are...

But 40 profiles on my 17's feel like rails / the car handles like a fookin beuty, it always "feels" horrible to me getting in any 306 that isnt on 17's as they always feel sloppy to me....

[Ed Doe]

Honestly my car felt fantastic on the 17s. It was super direct, incredibly sharp and so progressive. I just felt in complete control of it at all times, whereas it feels a lot more wooly on the clones. I dunno I way preferred the way the car on the 17s! But it is more comfy on the clones!!

Everyone goes on about paradas being pants / soft as turd, which maybe they are...

But 40 profiles on my 17's feel like rails / the car handles like a fookin beuty, it always "feels" horrible to me getting in any 306 that isnt on 17's as they always feel sloppy to me....

Agree!

I think with the 40profiles there's obv a lot less tyre wall to deform under cornering, so they probably dont feel nearly as bad, but the 50profiles on my clones are just tragic imo...

[Ben]

What do you mean by tramlining?

the car pulling into ruts in the surface of the road. theres a road near me where it happens really badly. always catches me out!

Ahh I see. I wouldn't have thought that would ever be a problem with our cars, even with the wheels spaced out 20mm it wouldn't make the track wider than the majority of larger cars.

[Toms306]

What do you mean by tramlining?

the car pulling into ruts in the surface of the road. theres a road near me where it happens really badly. always catches me out!

Ahh I see. I wouldn't have thought that would ever be a problem with our cars, even with the wheels spaced out 20mm it wouldn't make the track wider than the majority of larger cars.

Larger cars tramline worse lol!! The Golf was terrible for it on the 18s, to the point where you go to overtake a cyclist and it gives you the option of staying exactly where you are or being right on the otherside of the road...nowhere in between. Still tramlined on the 16s but not so bad, 'cloned 306 doesn't seem to do it at all. Yes the 306 is better in this case.

[Oil-burner]

Ahh I see. I wouldn't have thought that would ever be a problem with our cars, even with the wheels spaced out 20mm it wouldn't make the track wider than the majority of larger cars.

That all depends on the offset of the new wheels.
I'm running 15mm spacers on the aidels which are et31 +spacers makes them et16.
This makes the inside track shorter by 3mm and the outside track wider by 9mm due to the wider wheel.
Even running 20mm spacers would only extend the inside track 2mm over oem.

[Tallguy_2]

its a given fact that a 17" wheel with the correct tyre has the same rolling diameter as a 15" cyclone with the right tyre,

if you put a 17" wheel on that weighed exactly the same as a 15" with the same offset then you would notice a huge difference using two identical spec tyres in the different profiles

At the end of the day a straight wheel swap using the right size wont alter and geometry such as tracking, castor or camber,

however if you were to lower your car and then whack some different wheels on and think your going to be on rails think again, doing this you have just introduced many many problems in one change, such as:

*Unsprung weight
* you've now altered your castor and camber's working derogatory values due to a different ride height
*correct offset
*vehicle track width (remember an ET15 on a 6j wheel would provide a radically different track to an ET15 on a 7.5j wheel)
*rear weight and corner weight will now all be different too

Just 2% cross-weight can provide a detrimental effect into what you think the car is doing,

I've had my car on the scales to try and achieve a better balance, purely because i have access to them, remember 20 litres of fuel is 20kilos of rear weight, weight percentage that's now not hanging over the front wheels.

The only real good way to ever know if the wheels solely make a difference is to make sure all these things are the same to achieve a fair ground to test on

if anybody wants to drop me a PM of anything to do with set-up and scaling up etc go for it.

If there's enough interest I wouldn't mind even writing a technical set-up and check list etc to put on the forum in a section if the mod's wanted?

[Ben]

Sounds like you know your stuff and a guide on this subject could be quite useful to the forum. I've never really looked into this kind of thing before but as I'm hoping to build a track car in the next year or two it would certainly be an interesting read for me.

[Ed Doe]

its a given fact that a 17" wheel with the correct tyre has the same rolling diameter as a 15" cyclone with the right tyre,

if you put a 17" wheel on that weighed exactly the same as a 15" with the same offset then you would notice a huge difference using two identical spec tyres in the different profiles

At the end of the day a straight wheel swap using the right size wont alter and geometry such as tracking, castor or camber,

however if you were to lower your car and then whack some different wheels on and think your going to be on rails think again, doing this you have just introduced many many problems in one change, such as:

*Unsprung weight
* you've now altered your castor and camber's working derogatory values due to a different ride height
*correct offset
*vehicle track width (remember an ET15 on a 6j wheel would provide a radically different track to an ET15 on a 7.5j wheel)
*rear weight and corner weight will now all be different too

Just 2% cross-weight can provide a detrimental effect into what you think the car is doing,

I've had my car on the scales to try and achieve a better balance, purely because i have access to them, remember 20 litres of fuel is 20kilos of rear weight, weight percentage that's now not hanging over the front wheels.

The only real good way to ever know if the wheels solely make a difference is to make sure all these things are the same to achieve a fair ground to test on

if anybody wants to drop me a PM of anything to do with set-up and scaling up etc go for it.

If there's enough interest I wouldn't mind even writing a technical set-up and check list etc to put on the forum in a section if the mod's wanted?

2 things.

1. Could you dig out Dumdum's old gti6 'lightening' project and expound your thoughts on it given what you know on weight distribution; I feel it would amuse me

2. If you wouldn't mind helping me set mine up come summer that would be awesome!!

[Jonny b]

Ed a pal of mine has just got a corner weighting setup after crimbo when he's not to busy we going to have a pop at mine, sure he wouldn't mind you coming over!

Oh yeh he's just as f*cking anal as you when it comes to adjustability lol

[Ed Doe]

:flol: amazing Jonny That'd be epic man, yes please if he doesn't mind!!

[Tallguy_2]

Yeah I'd be glad to help anyone out, as long as there's good banter and a few drinks! Doors always open on the workshop if anyone wants!

Silly little things, how many people run adjustable drop links? By lowering your car without them you are effectively pre loading your anti roll bar before you've even moved.

Tyre pressures, if your shocks are adjustable rebounds etc, its all good fun to learn and even more rewarding when it feels right!

[Ed Doe]

I'll shortly be running adjustable drop links, and alreadu enjoy playing with the rebound settings on my coilies not started playing with tyre pressures really though, as even with 35psi in the spec 2s I can feel them tucking under themselves during hard cornering! I and the yokohamas on my Turinis aren't great either....
Wish I'd had the money to I vest in the hybrid arms and 23mm tbs; next time!!

[Tallguy_2]

They feel like there tucking under as there's no camber, at full load you need the wheel dead up right with the maximum contact patch on the floor for the most benefit, however like any change this has its disadvantages, a lack of braking and accelerating grip

[Poodle]

I'd be very interested in such a guide...

[Anton]

Ed i run 37-38 psi and it feels good.

[Ed Doe]

They feel like there tucking under as there's no camber, at full load you need the wheel dead up right with the maximum contact patch on the floor for the most benefit, however like any change this has its disadvantages, a lack of braking and accelerating grip

I'm running a set of compbrake eccentric topmounts set for additional camber and caster over stock, but they were still definitely tucking. As you say though, it's a toss-up; really I'd probably go for more camber, but it would inevitably be at the expense of acceleration/braking. I found the same camber/caster settings on the Turinis worked a treat though! I do need more adjustability though....