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+--- Thread: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In (/showthread.php?tid=9159)
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Eeyore - 02-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 10:30 PM)Poodle Wrote: Yeah, because peugeot bodged a half-hydro setup into some engines because all the later engines used proper hydro clutches, no? As far as i was aware the only benefit to installing a hydro clutch was the increased torque-holding, which isn't exactly a worry on this, or is it? Basically i don't get why you've done it, why have you done it?
becauseracecar
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Rippthrough - 02-03-2014
There's no increased torque holding, it's just lighter pedal effort (less friction) and longer lasting/self adjusting.
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Poodle - 03-03-2014
Fair enough, mostly a comfort mod then? Not being picky just wondered why Grant had done it, it's not exactly like his usual racecar mods is it lol.
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 03-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 10:30 PM)Poodle Wrote: Yeah, because peugeot bodged a half-hydro setup into some engines because all the later engines used proper hydro clutches, no? As far as i was aware the only benefit to installing a hydro clutch was the increased torque-holding, which isn't exactly a worry on this, or is it? Basically i don't get why you've done it, why have you done it?
Half hydro setup? Im assuming you mean as this does not use a concentric slave cylinder on the input shaft of the 'box?
The same setup as has been used in the:
-Ford Transit
-Land Rover Freelander
-Lotus Esprit
-Mazda RX8
-Rover 45
-BMW Mini (exactly the same cylinder in fact)
The list goes on...
The only benefiting factor as to how much torque the system would hold would be how strong it is. i.e. a hydro setup would more easily depress a much heavier clutch. A concentric system, granted more so, but not a problem in this, or many applications.
As to why I have done it; whilst the original design is not 'shit', it leaves a lot to be desired. It is far from light, the auto adjustor leaves your pedal invariably at the top or bottom of the travel range, and mostly, when the adjustor gets hot it gets 'notchey'. So you have a 'on' or 'off' clutch. Mainly due to the fact that it sits directly under the exhaust manifold getting nice and toasty.
This setup should eliminate all of this.
And as Rowell says, becauseracecar
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Poodle - 03-03-2014
Fair enough, i'm with you, interesting cheers!
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 03-03-2014
This is all, of course, if it works
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Tom - 03-03-2014
Who cares what its for its fricken awesome, for no reason!
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - lolsteve - 03-03-2014
Hydro clutch = racecar
Rover cars have hydro clutch
Rover = Racecar
Yes the logic is unquestionable
Interesting build though man impressed
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 03-03-2014
(03-03-2014, 07:07 PM)Tom Wrote: Who cares what its for its fricken awesome, for no reason!
It kind of is for no reason: When the new engine goes in, it will be completely redundant
Ah well.(03-03-2014, 08:35 PM)lolsteve Wrote: Hydro clutch = racecar
Rover cars have hydro clutch
Rover = Racecar
Yes the logic is unquestionable
Interesting build though man impressed
Whatever helps you sleep at night mate
But cheers. It does for now.
Spent most of this afternoon and evening making my own gear stick, from the selector arm up. Pain in the arse, but done. Pics to follow when I CBA. Ive sat down with a beer now
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Tom - 03-03-2014
But no one else has one and you made that all yourself, its impressive man :p Not to mention its just different.
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 03-03-2014
Haha cheers dude.
Credit to him, me and Niall have spent many evenings scribbling away on beer mats in the pub, and flinging many links to different things back and forth.
There was one guy on the '6 forum who made a hydraulic setup, but he had his gearbox machined out to accept a concentric cylinder on the input shaft.
Sadly I don't own a CNC machine, or have a large abundance of money, so I will not be doing this
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Tallguy_2 - 03-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 06:43 PM)devils_fuel Wrote: Is that a formula 1 or 2 stock car as the vid isn't working for me
Spent many hours 10+ years ago going to stock car events with a mate as he had a formula 2, an uber tuned 2.0 ford lump and that was rapid on a short oval at Cheddar and Taunton
Thats a mate of mine in a F1, he was F2 world champion, Mick Sworder. Yes the F2s are just as good and in fact quicker over a lap. Who was you're mate?
Yet again grant, f*cking fair play! How do you even think this stuff up?
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Niall - 03-03-2014
Hydro clutches are much nicer. Unfortunately the 306 design is a rather poor one. I don't know about other models but the gti, if you get it properly hot really gives a hot clutch due to the manifold being just that bit closer to the adjuster i think.
Good thing with the hydro set up is its much nicer to use and self adjusting. A concentric cylinder would be a neater install but as i found out with my old work car, if they leak or fail, its a box off and new clutch job which is just a pain in the arse. At least with the external slave set up, if it goes pop, its 10 mins to change and 10 mins to bleed.
Tbh, with the amount of people that moan about the 306 clutch, I'm surprised its not more widely done. We will find out on saturday for certain but on paper, its very very simple!
Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - devils_fuel - 03-03-2014
(03-03-2014, 10:24 PM)Tallguy_2 Wrote:(01-03-2014, 06:43 PM)devils_fuel Wrote: Is that a formula 1 or 2 stock car as the vid isn't working for me
Spent many hours 10+ years ago going to stock car events with a mate as he had a formula 2, an uber tuned 2.0 ford lump and that was rapid on a short oval at Cheddar and Taunton
Thats a mate of mine in a F1, he was F2 world champion, Mick Sworder. Yes the F2s are just as good and in fact quicker over a lap. Who was you're mate?
When I used to go racing Rob speak was world champion and bill batten was uk champion...longtime ago.
My mate was a cheddar boy, Paul Scorse but he raced all over the south west. I used to love watching the bangers in cheddar, the cheddar headers (i.e. The mk 1 Granada crew) in the demolition derby wtf
Awesome work there grant, you're a busy beaver
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Piggy - 03-03-2014
Why are you wasting all this time and money being a pussy and fitting a hydro clutch when it could be spent fitting a manly V8?!
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 04-03-2014
(03-03-2014, 11:40 PM)Piggy Wrote: Why are you wasting all this time and money being a pussy and fitting a hydro clutch when it could be spent fitting a manly V8?!
So far this setup has cost me £9.50. When completed I reckon it will be around £35 quid. It's something to do that hasn't been done before
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Piggy - 04-03-2014
Only teasing really grant...seems bargain too!
And you may need the hydro master at least for the v8 gearbox/clutch.
...guess I just wana see a v8 in a 306 more than a hydro clutch!
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 04-03-2014
(04-03-2014, 07:31 AM)Piggy Wrote: Only teasing really grant...seems bargain too!
And you may need the hydro master at least for the v8 gearbox/clutch.
...guess I just wana see a v8 in a 306 more than a hydro clutch!
It's cool dude. And yeah, you and me both. I'm gonna have to buy an engine soon so it's forces me to pull my finger out!
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 06-03-2014
So what do you do when you want to shorten the throw on your quick shift but eh original gearstick is too short?
Make your own!! Of course!
![[Image: C2E391F7-9139-47A3-8295-EF2FA0B12014_zpsnul1roq6.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/C2E391F7-9139-47A3-8295-EF2FA0B12014_zpsnul1roq6.jpg.html)
Then what do you do when you have lowered it so much it fowls the exhaust?
Move it to inside the car and space it to f*ck!
![[Image: 1414A2C5-5E31-4555-BD18-4061CE6BA40C_zpss1ootscr.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/1414A2C5-5E31-4555-BD18-4061CE6BA40C_zpss1ootscr.jpg.html)
![[Image: 0E28D42B-CF66-4D80-AB4E-3CB1DFBA51D8_zps3flxot9h.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/0E28D42B-CF66-4D80-AB4E-3CB1DFBA51D8_zps3flxot9h.jpg.html)
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Piggy - 06-03-2014
Thats a nice idea actually, raises it up to a more useful position.
Nicely done
RE: Ell Diablo - V8 Engine?? - Grant - 08-03-2014
So, good productive day today:
Niall came over bright and early. We went to the scrappie, weighed in some shite we had lying around, and that has paid for our FCS tickets
Then got the hydraulic clutch fitted and working
So nice and smooth and ever so light!There were a couple of hiccups along the way but managed to get them ironed out. Its dark now so will get better pics tomorrow.
![[Image: 1775875C-0F84-4E2C-914C-DB63B7B98B73_zpsm3xgrrwx.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/1775875C-0F84-4E2C-914C-DB63B7B98B73_zpsm3xgrrwx.jpg.html)
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Toms306 - 08-03-2014
Hydraulic clutch in a 306? Awesome! How easy/cheap was it to do?
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Niall - 08-03-2014
£7.50!!!!
A lot of fabrication work but overall it was easy if you have access to a grinder and welder
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Toms306 - 08-03-2014
£7.50 sounds good... Fabrication with dangerous power tools not so much!
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Piggy - 08-03-2014
wow...cheap...I assume the £7.50 was for the oil/fluid flexi line?
This is also a good mod for when upgrading to a beefier clutch I guess
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - darrenjlobb - 08-03-2014
Be interested to see what you did at the pedal end of the hydrolic setup chaps ? Good work....
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Dum-Dum - 09-03-2014
Awesome it works
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Grant - 09-03-2014
(08-03-2014, 09:25 PM)Piggy Wrote: wow...cheap...I assume the £7.50 was for the oil/fluid flexi line?
This is also a good mod for when upgrading to a beefier clutch I guess
Truth be told, the entire setup has probably set me back about £35, when you include things like welding wire, paint etc etc.
Both cylinders were bought for £7.50 from the scrappie, which was an absolute touch! Then i had to have a custom brake line made up to join the both together. But everything else has been made in the garage.
(08-03-2014, 10:42 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Be interested to see what you did at the pedal end of the hydrolic setup chaps ? Good work....
It did look like the below picture at one point. But due to the stresses upon it, it was flexing too much, so has had to be 'beefed' up, to reduce a sloppy pedal feeling. I will get some more up to date pictures later on when I've got it looking a bit nicer
its in bare metal at the moment.![[Image: 209BBDC5-67DF-451B-A432-461A9434F469_zpsjt59mwt7.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/209BBDC5-67DF-451B-A432-461A9434F469_zpsjt59mwt7.jpg.html)
(09-03-2014, 06:23 AM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Awesome it works
Yeah I'm a bit surprised myself, but, it feels lush!
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - 7057sam - 09-03-2014
This is epic
So grant,when's the group buy starting
RE: Ell Diablo - Hydraulic Clutch In - Grant - 09-03-2014
So pictures of the pedal end - especially for Mr Lobb
Routed the original cable into it, but shortened, obviously.
![[Image: C692E09D-3A95-4588-AE64-2975ABD7B77E_zpskkdwrzoe.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/C692E09D-3A95-4588-AE64-2975ABD7B77E_zpskkdwrzoe.jpg.html)
![[Image: 37D1B080-BEE3-4812-9754-2C05F390CE41_zpspw7u9s9l.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/37D1B080-BEE3-4812-9754-2C05F390CE41_zpspw7u9s9l.jpg.html)
![[Image: FEE6DDA9-5F45-4ABC-82E5-16A50B338085_zps2a9xebe7.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/FEE6DDA9-5F45-4ABC-82E5-16A50B338085_zps2a9xebe7.jpg.html)
And actually gave the car a clean for the first time in the 18 months I have owned it
![[Image: 6BDCBF84-1EFE-48AD-9223-43017DE8AD50_zps8yyentx7.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/6BDCBF84-1EFE-48AD-9223-43017DE8AD50_zps8yyentx7.jpg.html)
![[Image: 2DA03F97-5BF3-4034-B48A-D892256DA1F1_zpssgiulhjx.jpg]](http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/grant-306/media/2DA03F97-5BF3-4034-B48A-D892256DA1F1_zpssgiulhjx.jpg.html)