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RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - procta - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 01:07 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Done properly costs money though, forged rods, updated head studs, oil cooler, bigger rad, updated clutch etc.
Sensors aren't as bad as people think, there's only about 3 that will cause a breakdown. Theyre the easiest part to diagnose as well lol. But I wouldn't mod a newer diesel on a budget now either.
yeah tom your right, if you want the car to be 200 bhp then you will have to spend money and time. But that doesn't matter if you are really keen and enjoy it.
Only thing I see sadly, on other car forums is that they bail out half way, either get bored or lose sight of what they wanted the car to be.
Also tom Remember what you have just said, "Sensors aren't as bad as people think, there's only about 3 that will cause a breakdown. Theyre the easiest part to diagnose as well"
As I remember you saying that your scared of breaking down etc.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
This is so true. I've been guilty of it in the past of bailing. Saying that my mini I used to race got completed. The 306 will get done the aim was a reliable 170ish bhp. So although I'm now going m\tdi its still got the same aim. Still moving forward.
I also hate modern cars just because I work on em all day.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - powerandtorque - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 12:22 PM)Toms306 Wrote: And the HDis just fall apart when used daily, clutch, cat, beam, turbo, rust etc killed off the estate workhorse, sure I could've spent its value to make it reliable, but there's no justifying that for me lol.
They really don't, not if you buy one that's been vaguely looked after previously and then look after it properly in your ownership. Like any other car, they give problems when they've been neglected, bodged and people try to look after them on a shoestring doing the absolute bare minimum to keep them on the road.
I say this as someone who for the last 6 years has been doing 20-25k miles a year in a 306 HDi.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Piggy - 06-02-2015
My HG has been fine. It was headlift due to no ARPs.
No oil cooler, not a drop of oil now.
Clutch doesnt slip, was excess boost.
Bet it cost less to uprate thr 2.1 engine to what Im running than change a dPF!
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
Proper dpfs from dealers are 1000 upwards for parts only. Stupid invention.
So anyway. M/hdi injectors??
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Dum-Dum - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 04:57 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: So anyway. M/hdi injectors??
££££££££££
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Toms306 - 06-02-2015
Genuine DPF would've cost £800....and that's with the return of the old one.
Pattern part cost £200, scrapped the old one for £60. If you've uprated the 2.1 for £140 then I'll be amazed James.
(06-02-2015, 01:18 PM)procta Wrote:(06-02-2015, 01:07 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Done properly costs money though, forged rods, updated head studs, oil cooler, bigger rad, updated clutch etc.
Sensors aren't as bad as people think, there's only about 3 that will cause a breakdown. Theyre the easiest part to diagnose as well lol. But I wouldn't mod a newer diesel on a budget now either.
yeah tom your right, if you want the car to be 200 bhp then you will have to spend money and time. But that doesn't matter if you are really keen and enjoy it.
Only thing I see sadly, on other car forums is that they bail out half way, either get bored or lose sight of what they wanted the car to be.
Also tom Remember what you have just said, "Sensors aren't as bad as people think, there's only about 3 that will cause a breakdown. Theyre the easiest part to diagnose as well"
As I remember you saying that your scared of breaking down etc.
No car is immune to breakdowns, but you can limit some of the breakdown possibilities...getting rid of cables for clutch and throttle is a good start...all well and good having a working engine if you can't get any gears lol. But of course, the clutch slave could still fail, its just less common.
Major sensors don't usually randomly break on the road, things like cam/crank or fuel pressure. It'd usually be a non-start fault, hopefully at home but if not I have a code reader in the car anyway - if I drove an XUD and it doesn't start I'd be f*cked...might give the primer a pump but beyond that no idea lol.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - procta - 06-02-2015
yeah of course tom, I have had my share who hasn't, I have fuel pump, battery ,alternator and rad failures.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 05:07 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(06-02-2015, 04:57 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: So anyway. M/hdi injectors??
££££££££££
Surely they can be compiled yourself from various vehicles? Cant be that hard. I'm also friendly with the local diesel specialist near me.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Poodle - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 12:22 PM)Toms306 Wrote:(05-02-2015, 09:01 PM)Poodle Wrote:(05-02-2015, 08:19 PM)Toms306 Wrote: I haven't managed reliable with any modded diesel with just 130-180bhp!
Money is the main reason though, could've easily chucked more money at them to make them reliable really. And at least you've got a decent work space to do stuff.
You might want to check the pronunciation on that, but i think you'll find it's actually spelt "patience and perseverance".
Not really. Golf would've cost far too much to make reliable, it died because I did it on a budget. And the HDis just fall apart when used daily, clutch, cat, beam, turbo, rust etc killed off the estate workhorse, sure I could've spent its value to make it reliable, but there's no justifying that for me lol.
Er no, you spent money in the wrong places trying to make the golf go faster and be more interesting rather than fixing the problems and then sacked it off when you got bored of trying to fix it. The HDis are indestructable used daily, problems arise (again) when you make it go faster rather than fixing the issues, or alternatively when you buy a lemon and are then surprised when it turns out to be sour.
You're whinging about it costing more to fix than the value of the car, but a broken car is never going to be valuable, it's a contradiction in terms. Never heard the phrase "adding value"? You should learn it, especially if you're trying to go self-employed as it's the very basis of a successful business. I think in this instance i may have got the wrong end of the stick and you're possibly referring to the car's value to yourself, but since that appears to be a forgone conclusion i fail to see how it's relevant.
Sorry to have a go, but it drives me mental when people blame their own lack of commitment on the cars that suffer them.
Edit: are you seriously advocating examples like tps and hydro clutch as reliability improvements?? Spend a day in a garage and say that again with a straight face, i dare you.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Toms306 - 06-02-2015
I mean the 'fixed' value... Spending £500 on a 306 that'll only be worth a grand fixed seems pointless to me. I broke it for a grand instead, and didn't have to pay out the £500... Seems like a sensible decision to me!
The Golf had 2 failures at the same time, cam/lifters and DMF, and I'd just spent out on a recon turbo for it. Again, I broke it for what it would be worth whole (£2.5k back then) and didn't have to spend ~£700 or so on it.
Obviously not everyone is in the position to break a car in that situation, I'm not now either. But that seemed like the best value for money option there.
Of course you can add value to a car, but only one that's cheap to start with and will be worth money when sold, I made £750 profit on the non-runner 206 I bought.... Double what I spent on it including parts and MOT... Now that's adding value!
But anyway, I shall leave this now as it's got off topic.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Piggy - 06-02-2015
Tom, obviously it cost more than £140. But Im betting it cost less than half the cost of your focus. And does 60mpg, runs on veg, has over 200bhp...
meh. Brick wall. head. Banging.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - procta - 06-02-2015
tom I have to disagree with you about the HDI, I have mine 8 years now today and I tell you, That car has not given me any trouble at all, She has took me up and down the country and back home again. She has failed her test a few times, on brake pipes, cat and other daft things, but that's been about it. We have done about 20 to 30k together, and its the longest car I have owned to date. Reason why I haven't got rid of it, is due to the fact the car isn't a basket case. In fact tbh I should really be putting money into this car, but it hasn't needed, the mot tester said its a fuckin fine car for its age.
So with you saying that tom, I think I most have bagged a very rare one then, and all her electrics work too!
even if things started to go wrong, I would be more than happy to fix it.
bashbarnard, my advice to you is what do you want the 306 to be? keep what ever you want the car to be locked in your mind and keep it in stone. Ask the lads who have done derv conversions and pushed those engines. Find the best step and start from there. Also remember this, it will never be finished! always something you want upgrade or change!
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Toms306 - 06-02-2015
Only 20-30k in 8 years? No wonder its not breaking lol. Tbh I often buy cars that have only been used for school run etc, barely done any mileage then they just cant handle 1-1.5k miles a month, especially on rough B roads and loads of 30-60 overtakes. Tbf to the estate it was used as a workhorse when there was a bit of a crisis month, but it literally just fell apart during that month!!
As for electrics, you're definitely lucky there....the '6 is the first one Ive had for a long time without any door loom faults! Estate had door loom, boot loom faults, blower motor wiring burning behind dash etc.
Difference with yours is its low mileage and you've owned it a while, bought when people still looked after them... Buying one now the majority are shitters tbh. Not just buying either, I don't see many about but the ones I do are wrecked...parked next to one yesterday with the mirror hanging on just by the wires, door trims hanging off, rear bumper scraped and sticking out, wheel bolt missing, fog smashed, backbox about 1mm off the floor with broken hangars... Im not usually bothered about parking dents but I wasn't brave enough to stay next to that heap!
Just another one that'll end up scrapped when the MOT runs out though. Finding a decent one now is near impossible and basically limited to forum cars!(06-02-2015, 06:01 PM)Piggy Wrote: Tom, obviously it cost more than £140. But Im betting it cost less than half the cost of your focus. And does 60mpg, runs on veg, has over 200bhp...
meh. Brick wall. head. Banging.
I really hope you spent a lot less than half the price of the Focus on it tbh!! Even a quarter would be more than I'd spend on one these days!
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Poodle - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 06:01 PM)Piggy Wrote: meh. Brick wall. head. Banging.
This. And some more of this.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
320d injectors work. Boom!! May have to do some modding though.
Tom I would never buy a new car even with putting money into my old car. I know it inside out if something breaks it gets fixed properly ands not an issue again. Each to there own man.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - procta - 06-02-2015
nah tom, its not due to the low mileage, Its due to how its looked after, previously. They are still some great examples out there, just have to look on here, You don't always buy the 1st one you see.
but remember tom, the last 306 is about 13 years old and the phase1s are 20 years old now, and the phase2s are starting to push close to that age now.
if the service history is good and close to as update as possible, to the mileage its done, then your half way there,
none of the 306s have been local to me at all either, this one came from Yarm and the other one out skirts of Hexham.
All I can say really tom, is do more research, and walk away if its doesn't feel right, as I think you ( I maybe wrong mind) seem to buy the 1st car that you see. If they are like that. Don't take that the wrong way pal mind,
I have seen two sheds before my 306s, all I can say is the right car will pop a long and the ford focus you have bought, is one of those cars.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
This thread has turned into let's tell tom his wrong. He just has opinions others on here don't share.
Anyway back to the derv ideas.
Been thinking about this for a while as well as the 2.1. This seems more viable and more fun as it hasn't been done a lot.
Bosch pump with 11mm head, di camplate, maybe a few other subtle mods unsure yet.
330d injectors. Possibly. Someone used them before. It ran. No idea after that. Spray patterns, break points et Need to be looked into.
Mounting the Bosch bracket. Easy enough few mods.
Cambelt? Literally no clue ATM.
Anything I've overlooked? Suggestions. Hints. Tips. Tell me I'm an idiot
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Piggy - 06-02-2015
You cant mtdi a idi head dood
standard 2.1 pump bracket will take a bosch fine
You'll likely want a diff aux setup
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
I'm on about mtdi a hdi engine as they are more readily available for me.
2.1 is easy but not readily available. Just spitballing ATM quite like the idea though.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Piggy - 06-02-2015
Ah fair enough.
You just aint looking hard enough!
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Uberderv - 06-02-2015
Injectors need to have either original or Jtd nozzles( High flow are available if you have the ££). The angles are very important in Di engines. HDI has pre injection which would have to be considered as original injectors are solenoid controlled and MHDi would be purely mechanical. I seem to remember landrover bodies and HDi nozzles being used.
How bout 8v 2.2 MHDi
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 06-02-2015
Jtd nozzles? High flows out the question. Landrover bodies interesting will have to look onto that as well. It would be a standard dw10 to e honest. Maybe if I perfected it may go on to do more.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 07-02-2015
Jtd nozzles are fiat jobbies ignore me. Funny what lack of sleep does to people. I'm awake now though.
The only injectors that have been OPENLY proven to run are the 320d ones. Some people say hybrid transit injectors but i cant see any proof anywhere. People seem to keep quite about what they use. Looks like Darren got a 206 up and running once in 3 hours. (I've been thread trawling)
Tempted to ask but as i don't personally know him. Shame really.
Just want to get a decent running setup that I've built myself.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 07-02-2015
I need a favor from one of you lovely people. does anyone know where i can get diameter/lengths of injectors cant find them online.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bigcheez2k3 - 07-02-2015
ECP? They often have dimensions of parts on the item page.
Or ebay auctions for them? I've seen diagrams on there before.
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 07-02-2015
just had a quick look at the injectors in question on their website. neither of which have the info. Any more ideas?
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 08-02-2015
So to save me trawling for measurements went and pulled this out mates spare engine today. Should be able to match up some sort of injectors now.
Also looked through ebay at possible injectors. These are 300tdi ones. Apparently they fit and work with a bit of modding. Good thing I have a land rover enthusiast as a mate. I'll go to his workshop and nick one of his to compare. Also got some spare transit engines sitting at work which is another possibility
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - Dum-Dum - 08-02-2015
Looks promising
RE: Thinking out loud about diesel engine conversion - bashbarnard - 08-02-2015
Yeah the transit ones look similar as well. If I can get it all to work will be awesome. I've got some transit ones at work so will take pics tomorrow and put them up.