Anyone done a 2.1TD swap and know whats required?
I know Im gonna need to put my bosch on off the 1.9 and probably swap the flywheel clutch and gearbox.
I think the gearbox is the same mate. Can't see it being that different really, apart from the 12 valve head and longer stroke their a very similar engine...
apparently the turbo is closer to the bulkhead, there was someone on here who had done it, think it was a white car with gearbox mounted turbo
Looking at a few threads it appears turbo clearance is the big issue as the manifold sits much further back and most people appear to use a gearbox mounted turbo to combat this.
Plug and play other than turbo manifold / downpipe, best bet would just be modify that, and rest will bolt in, just use the 306 tranny / fly and clutch etc,....
I gotta say for the exhaust manifold that a hdi manifold welded to the 2.1 flange looks like the best bet to keep the turbo at the back.
Anyone got any more pearls of wisdom on this?
No, except to say do it. A lot of people have opinions on the 2.1 but hardly anyone has actually done it and produced a detailed project thread on it, the majority of what we know is theory. It's about time an active member had a go at it and documented it. Get it done mate, I'll be following the thread with interest
Yeah Why change from the 1.9 lol all that hassle is there really much more gains?
Out of the box, yes. But as said noone's really bothered, a lot is hearsay. Would love a 2.1 tbh, masses of torque but does anyone actually know how strong the rods are?
(19-11-2012, 12:26 PM)cwspellowe Wrote: [ -> ]Out of the box, yes. But as said noone's really bothered, a lot is hearsay. Would love a 2.1 tbh, masses of torque but does anyone actually know how strong the rods are?
It is something ive been interested in but not keen on the heads for big boost etc, but havent really looked into them that much ive only looked into what JP has done using the 2.1 crank in a 1.9 bottom end as i was told to do by local derv specialist who says in his opinion the 2.1 are shit and not strong
But hey who knows there a guy with TD04 on here but figuires wernt exactly over impressive for the claimed work and got mixed up with torque units
As people said it would be intresting to see...but the way i see it, is its just everything I dont want...
Long stroke = torque muncher / hates revs.....I like building revvy lightweight dervs....torque just rapes clutchs, tyres,any everyother part of the drivetrain and bottom end / makes for a boring "hdi'esqe" drive imo.....
If i was doing anything to an XUD, id be shorting the stroke even if it meant dropping it to a 1.6 / could always bore it out a bit to help out, but revs are ftw imo...but that said, not everyone is into that kinda thing, and if your after a motorway muncher, than a 2.1 400 ft pound machine would be epic!! and mpg would be offensively epic.
I just need to find somewhere that makes rods less than £1000 for one set
(19-11-2012, 01:39 PM)CJ_Derv Wrote: [ -> ]I just need to find somewhere that makes rods less than £1000 for one set
Well it seems there's a few people interested in a group buy in mattys project thread. Not sure how much a group buy would lower them though.
(19-11-2012, 01:46 PM)Ben Wrote: [ -> ] (19-11-2012, 01:39 PM)CJ_Derv Wrote: [ -> ]I just need to find somewhere that makes rods less than £1000 for one set
Well it seems there's a few people interested in a group buy in mattys project thread. Not sure how much a group buy would lower them though.
What for shorter ones that will take a 2.1 cranks and 1.9 block and pistons? :S
Forged h beams are 750 a set free cartridge
Where from? i just need drawings from a friend
back in a pug then chris and a white gti6 <3
So the big news is im collecting a 2.1TD lump tomorrow evening. £250 with turbo in Norfuck.
Sadly the XM I looked at today was on 208,000 miles (not the 188 advertised), it was leaking suspension fluid however this is linked to the brakes so thats scary and finally the head gasket had gone. £350 was the absolute lowest he would go and im glad i didnt say yes.
(19-11-2012, 10:00 AM)THE_Liam Wrote: [ -> ]No, except to say do it. A lot of people have opinions on the 2.1 but hardly anyone has actually done it and produced a detailed project thread on it, the majority of what we know is theory. It's about time an active member had a go at it and documented it. Get it done mate, I'll be following the thread with interest
Well seen as you put it like that I might as well.
(19-11-2012, 12:23 PM)CJ_Derv Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah Why change from the 1.9 lol all that hassle is there really much more gains?
Theres no replacement for displacement.
(19-11-2012, 01:03 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: [ -> ]As people said it would be intresting to see...but the way i see it, is its just everything I dont want...
Long stroke = torque muncher / hates revs.....I like building revvy lightweight dervs....torque just rapes clutchs, tyres,any everyother part of the drivetrain and bottom end / makes for a boring "hdi'esqe" drive imo.....
If i was doing anything to an XUD, id be shorting the stroke even if it meant dropping it to a 1.6 / could always bore it out a bit to help out, but revs are ftw imo...but that said, not everyone is into that kinda thing, and if your after a motorway muncher, than a 2.1 400 ft pound machine would be epic!! and mpg would be offensively epic.
Yep thats exactly what im after. Gonna build myself another kit car so can have a screamer (maybe bike engine) in that so this will always be my daily and a motorway muncher. I do think you could be right on 400lb/ft but for a start im aiming for 280lb/ft and sensible bhp as thats the limit of what the valeo will take.
Got a turbo on the way so it will hopefully go in with a larger/more modern unit already on.
Its getting fitted with a HDi box and im hoping to push my average from 50mpg up to nearer 60mpg.
i'd say wih my hdi box and revised lda settings i'm close to 60mpg as home, work, ace, home which was about 180miles cost about £15-£20 at a guesstimate lol.
Crack on with it though and if you need a hand holla at me i'll be happy to help
Would like to see the torque figures for this
i managed 240ft lbs with just a TD04L on a Gov Modded 9mm (no internal mods other than gov) just turned fuelling up
So really interested as to what these can get
Where abouts in Norfolk? Might drive by
1.9 XUD roughly 145 ft lbs standard
2.1 XUD roughly 184 ft lbs standard
so theres a fair bit more standard so should be nice to see the increase with a better suited turbo and pump setup
(20-11-2012, 12:42 PM)CJ_Derv Wrote: [ -> ]with a better suited turbo
What kind of turbo are you thinking...
Good luck with it Chris, be sure to wizz me out in it if and when you finish it.
I havent a clue what would be ideal for a 2.1 as dont think they like the revs so something that comes in early, if its going over the box twin scroll would be interesting
VNT, the 2.1 is crying for, a VNT
A 2.1 project then? is this the next step for your sedan?
I was tempted to try the same thing myself, but maybe on the next car as im pretty happy with the current setup.
I would defiantly recommend a twin scroll turbo as you can cruise along all day at 70mph hardly using any boost, then soon as you plant your foot down the pull is almost instant. do some research into lgv and truck turbos, not sure how much more room the 2.1 lump takes up than the 1.9, but i cant see gearbox mounting a turbo the same way I have been an issue. really interested to see how this works out as if its successful it may be the push i need to start my next build
(20-11-2012, 11:19 AM)Kwik Wrote: [ -> ]i'd say wih my hdi box and revised lda settings i'm close to 60mpg as home, work, ace, home which was about 180miles cost about £15-£20 at a guesstimate lol.
Well Ive done work-norfuck-home tonight on a quater of a tank. 240 miles and id guess at about 4.5-5.5gal so 50mpg even with my leak offs pissing out fuel.
(20-11-2012, 11:44 AM)CJ_Derv Wrote: [ -> ]Would like to see the torque figures for this i managed 240ft lbs with just a TD04L on a Gov Modded 9mm (no internal mods other than gov) just turned fuelling up
I think if were talking a 20-30% increase standard to standard it might get that modified so 20-30% on 240lb/ft is 290-310lb/ft meaning that mounties 300lb/ft is about right
(20-11-2012, 12:22 PM)declantg Wrote: [ -> ]Where abouts in Norfolk? Might drive by
Diss. Im home now though. wasnt in a mood for hanging about, had a long day at work (with the new toy youll of seen on facebook) and didnt much fancy extending my 6 hour drive in the dark and rain.
(20-11-2012, 07:00 PM)silverzx Wrote: [ -> ]Good luck with it Chris, be sure to wizz me out in it if and when you finish it.
Cheers mate. Hopefully itll be running before the christmas meet.
(20-11-2012, 08:15 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: [ -> ]VNT, the 2.1 is crying for, a VNT
It is but the clutch will cry if i fit a VNT. I want to get it running an a modestly sized WG turbo before I start bending rods. I honestly think this could comfortably run enough torque to ra*e a standard valeo on a good tune and i just dont have the money for upgrades on top of the 2.1TD fitting and it needing a new clutch and having paid for several turbos to make a hybrid that fits.
(20-11-2012, 08:29 PM)ozonehostile Wrote: [ -> ]A 2.1 project then? is this the next step for your sedan?
I was tempted to try the same thing myself, but maybe on the next car as im pretty happy with the current setup.
I would defiantly recommend a twin scroll turbo as you can cruise along all day at 70mph hardly using any boost, then soon as you plant your foot down the pull is almost instant. do some research into lgv and truck turbos, not sure how much more room the 2.1 lump takes up than the 1.9, but i cant see gearbox mounting a turbo the same way I have been an issue. really interested to see how this works out as if its successful it may be the push i need to start my next build
It is indeed. 2.1TD sedan FTW
I think i said in your thread ive looked into twin scroll turbos alot for one of the beemers so a Iknw a fair bit about them but just not yet.
This car is supposed to be project cheap.