i am looking to build a 200bhp xud engine so not going to use standard rod what are the limits to hdi rods as seen a couple off people on here that have thrown hdi rods is it worth buy a set of forged rods as i know they cost a arm and a leg any help would be great full
If you're wanting 200bhp and reliable i'd look at forged personally. HDi rods are good for the usual big-blower style tunes but they're not bombproof, just a bit meatier than standard XUD rods.
Or.. if you don't mind changing engines, for the price of a set of bespoke forged rods you could have four spare engines.
thats the problem as they cost a bomb what safe bhp will hdi rods do ?
Er, nothing set in stone. They've bent at basic tuning levels. I'm "living dangerously" on a DHY block with a 10mm pump and a GT2056S so could be anywhere north of 170bhp and *touch wood* no issues so far, feels like a ticking timebomb though. I'm not even bothering with the hassle of HDi rods, i'd rather just run it until it blows and then throw in another engine.
well there you have it, pellowe has answered this perfectly
yup. sods law that xud rods dont blow on pellowes but a hdi rod'd td04 with less power punches a hole at tick over.
forged if you have a good bank account!
he has but if u buy forged rods least u will get some money back if u decide to sell
(29-07-2013, 09:04 PM)Teddy Wrote: [ -> ]he has but if u buy forged rods least u will get some money back if u decide to sell
True. If someone else has the money for them though. You'll only get your money back if they sell.
Forged rods you're talking £400+ for an off the shelf set. Even more for a bespoke set as they need to be measured up and designed, and things get a bit secretive when it comes to designing them. No harm in grabbing a tape measure and having a look see but part of the expense is getting a company to draw up plans for them too. Dread to think what a one off set of forged rods would cost without a group buy.
£700 my last quote on basis on 15 buys.
but you do have assurance that once done, its done. no worry of breakdown due to block explosion!
lad on here and live near me ashley hallows he had forged rods in his and some think went bang more like a investment lol
(29-07-2013, 09:03 PM)Piggy Wrote: [ -> ]yup. sods law that xud rods dont blow on pellowes but a hdi rod'd td04 with less power punches a hole at tick over.
forged if you have a good bank account!
What your all forgetting is hdi rods are stronger thicker better made, and significantly less people have spat a hdi rod in comparison to an xud rod. Obviously if you want to go for big power and want to know for sure the rods arent going to give out and you can afford it, by all means go forged. But theres NO chance of spitting a hdi rod on idle, its only the dodgy xud ones that do stuff like that! It all depends where your powerband is going to be aswell, because if your not making silly high cylinder pressures i would of thought the chances of rod breakage are alot less?
(29-07-2013, 09:04 PM)Teddy Wrote: [ -> ]he has but if u buy forged rods least u will get some money back if u decide to sell
Didnt he start having trouble with heads then? I think thats why Darren moved to DI :/
not sure what went on ashs he spent loads on his and only went for 2 weeks was a shame really
I was following his project, not very closely obviously but i know he had rods and headstuds and had just rebuilt it and i swear it was head trouble he was having, then threw in the towel, wonder what he drives now, nothing compares to epic boost :/
(29-07-2013, 09:14 PM)Tom Wrote: [ -> ] (29-07-2013, 09:03 PM)Piggy Wrote: [ -> ]yup. sods law that xud rods dont blow on pellowes but a hdi rod'd td04 with less power punches a hole at tick over.
forged if you have a good bank account!
What your all forgetting is hdi rods are stronger thicker better made, and significantly less people have spat a hdi rod in comparison to an xud rod. Obviously if you want to go for big power and want to know for sure the rods arent going to give out and you can afford it, by all means go forged. But theres NO chance of spitting a hdi rod on idle, its only the dodgy xud ones that do stuff like that! It all depends where your powerband is going to be aswell, because if your not making silly high cylinder pressures i would of thought the chances of rod breakage are alot less?
(29-07-2013, 09:04 PM)Teddy Wrote: [ -> ]he has but if u buy forged rods least u will get some money back if u decide to sell
Didnt he start having trouble with heads then? I think thats why Darren moved to DI :/
To be fair though, think of how many XUD's with HDI rods in that have blown compared to stock XUD rods.... Much higher percentage if I'm honest. But yes, people running HDI rods are generally on pretty high tunes so compare that to high tuned XUD's that have spat rods and it's probably pretty even.
In my honest opinion and I'm sure others will agree, I think rod spitting is 90% of the time down to the driver and the set-up of the pump and turbo. There's a few on here pushing near double stock power for a fair long time now.
SO if you have the money,go forged, and build it to the highest spec you can get. But if your going to have to strip down an engine just to fit HDI rods it's not worth the time and money unless your got it apart already.
(29-07-2013, 09:23 PM)Tom Wrote: [ -> ]I was following his project, not very closely obviously but i know he had rods and headstuds and had just rebuilt it and i swear it was head trouble he was having, then threw in the towel, wonder what he drives now, nothing compares to epic boost :/
ash is driving a 207 hdi now lol
(29-07-2013, 09:23 PM)strictly_derv Wrote: [ -> ] (29-07-2013, 09:14 PM)Tom Wrote: [ -> ] (29-07-2013, 09:03 PM)Piggy Wrote: [ -> ]yup. sods law that xud rods dont blow on pellowes but a hdi rod'd td04 with less power punches a hole at tick over.
forged if you have a good bank account!
What your all forgetting is hdi rods are stronger thicker better made, and significantly less people have spat a hdi rod in comparison to an xud rod. Obviously if you want to go for big power and want to know for sure the rods arent going to give out and you can afford it, by all means go forged. But theres NO chance of spitting a hdi rod on idle, its only the dodgy xud ones that do stuff like that! It all depends where your powerband is going to be aswell, because if your not making silly high cylinder pressures i would of thought the chances of rod breakage are alot less?
(29-07-2013, 09:04 PM)Teddy Wrote: [ -> ]he has but if u buy forged rods least u will get some money back if u decide to sell
Didnt he start having trouble with heads then? I think thats why Darren moved to DI :/
To be fair though, think of how many XUD's with HDI rods in that have blown compared to stock XUD rods.... Much higher percentage if I'm honest. But yes, people running HDI rods are generally on pretty high tunes so compare that to high tuned XUD's that have spat rods and it's probably pretty even.
In my honest opinion and I'm sure others will agree, I think rod spitting is 90% of the time down to the driver and the set-up of the pump and turbo. There's a few on here pushing near double stock power for a fair long time now.
SO if you have the money,go forged, and build it to the highest spec you can get. But if your going to have to strip down an engine just to fit HDI rods it's not worth the time and money unless your got it apart already.
yer if i am going to do it i wont do it cheap will buy top end stuff so it lasts as i dont want to make a gd bhp car then for it all to blow up in a week
Ash sold his engine on, did not pop a rod, he was having issues with the head.
Darren blew his hdi rod engine up, but he had hydro locked it a week or so before so that might not of helped.
Dave destroyed his hdi rod engine I believe.
Anyone know of anymore?
Ps you can get 306 forged rods for £700 single set no need for group buys.
(29-07-2013, 09:36 PM)Pompey306mark Wrote: [ -> ]Ash sold his engine on, did not pop a rod, he was having issues with the head.
Darren blew his hdi rod engine up, but he had hydro locked it a week or so before so that might not of helped.
Dave destroyed his hdi rod engine I believe.
Anyone know of anymore?
Ps you can get 306 forged rods for £700 single set no need for group buys.
yer i bought a shit loads off parts off ash when he broke his gd lad ash is
mark where are these rods?
(29-07-2013, 09:23 PM)strictly_derv Wrote: [ -> ]In my honest opinion and I'm sure others will agree, I think rod spitting is 90% of the time down to the driver and the set-up of the pump and turbo. There's a few on here pushing near double stock power for a fair long time now.
Agree 100%, short'ish' blasts, wg controlled boost and properly set up and tuned pump ftw
edit just forget about the very last 5-10hp lol its normally kills it lol
I did have forged rods lol and they didn't cost 700 lol also I did only run it for about two week but it killed 2 heads pre cups dropped on both heads and they was both fully rebuilt. meh I don't regret doing it and didn't loose any money when you think about it I broke a s reg 306 albeit a decent spec one and and brought a 07 plate 207 and had money left over and for my milage I do now it would have ggot sold/broken any way when the mot was up.
I am looking it to the idea of a 309 dturbo now though
(30-07-2013, 05:53 AM)ash23 Wrote: [ -> ]I did have forged rods lol and they didn't cost 700 lol also I did only run it for about two week but it killed 2 heads pre cups dropped on both heads and they was both fully rebuilt. meh I don't regret doing it and didn't loose any money when you think about it I broke a s reg 306 albeit a decent spec one and and brought a 07 plate 207 and had money left over and for my milage I do now it would have ggot sold/broken any way when the mot was up.
I am looking it to the idea of a 309 dturbo now though
when you look back on it now where do you think you went wrong fella? ...
the head lol wasn't up to it first one had the ports opened out and the second was just stock to get me the car running if I was to do it again it would be exactly the same but with a big value ported bbigger pre cups head was fun 5 years but there is life after the 306 don't get me wrong g loved the 306 but I'm glad I went for a newish car that everything works on lol
(29-07-2013, 09:23 PM)strictly_derv Wrote: [ -> ]SO if you have the money,go forged, and build it to the highest spec you can get. But if your going to have to strip down an engine just to fit HDI rods it's not worth the time and money unless your got it apart already.
Exactly my point. Pricing up a headgasket, bolts, mani gaskets, poss belt/tensioner/pump, rods, you can buy a whole new engine for that if and when something pops. I know what i'd rather do, especially as fitting HDi rods doesn't guarantee reliability.
Plus I heard a theory about hot spots created by using cheap and nasty oil, so many things could be a contributing factor and there doesn't seem to be any constant between all the XUD's that have thrown rods.
Agree its cheaper / easier in some respects to have a spare block ready to go in, but im sure it'd get boring at some point and would be nice to be able to have some faith in the engine your running.
I think if you're aiming for 200bhp you should definitely consider going forged for peace of mind.
Assume with that power you'd be investing some dough elsewhere, so seems silly not to consider it.
160/170 ish on a tight budget you can prob afford to stick to standard and take your chances, or go with hdi rods and improve those chances considerably.
Yeah, i was arguing the case against HDi rods if going for 200bhp, they're pointless at those power levels as i'd imagine they'd barely be more reliable than XUD rods.
Forged rods definitely if you can afford them.
Speaking from experience, changing engines every 5 minutes does get annoying. Its fun to find the weak spot and know what will peermanently f*ck your bottom end, but this is always the conrods. 200hp would be acheivable reliably on hdi rods I reckon, but would take some serious testing with pump/turbo, but again no one knows the story and its easier going for beef now and then concentrating on other areas.
(01-08-2013, 12:21 AM)Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking from experience, changing engines every 5 minutes does get annoying. Its fun to find the weak spot and know what will peermanently f*ck your bottom end, but this is always the conrods. 200hp would be acheivable reliably on hdi rods I reckon, but would take some serious testing with pump/turbo, but again no one knows the story and its easier going for beef now and then concentrating on other areas.
And have spare engine in garage ready to go
One of sets off forged rods are around 720-750 quid, thats what I payed for mine anyway. Which is alot of money, but essential if you want to "push every last pony out of your setup"
It all depends on your setup to much your stressing your engine, you could be stressing the shit out of it with huge EMPs/ EGTS at like 50psi on a td04, making say 190hp, wheras as higher power like 220hp, running a bigger blower / better head / manifolds etc and you wont be stressing it as much....
If im honest, rods aside, you will struggle to make any XUD "reliable" past 200hp, there are so many other problems (cooling system not man enough, cooking the head pre cups getting raped, fuel supply getting raped, oil getting destroyed, clutch problems) etcetetc....If not not worried about making chronic power, then your better off cutting your losses at 180-190hp, because after that, it will just become expensive, and un reliable...
Couldnt have put it any better Darren, I found this out spent a fortune on rods etc head work bigger precups and all failed when a precup dropped n smashed everything to bits
Its a car that you can never relax in if its your daily, I only ran 180ish and that only lasted 12 months but having said, was stock engine td04 and 9mm and tbh I think the veg killed it after running on it for 3 months