Brake pipe & flares

[Mighty306]

Have searched on the forum n internet but can't find a definitive answer to these questions.

Have removed the fixed brake lines from the rear calipers n they twisted as I unscrewed the fittings. I'm guessing they hadn't been undone for many years n the two had corroded together. First question, are there any tips for stopping this happening? A good soak with penetrating fluid perhaps?

Second question is about copper-nickel brake line. Some online retailers sell 25ft at the £30-40 mark while there's stuff on eBay for £15-20. Is some of the eBay stuff to be avoided at all costs? Any recommendations on where to buy?

Finally (!), what type of brake pipe flare is used at male & female fittings on the 306? Combo of bubble & double flares? Even if I look at the old ones I feel like I'm guessing what type they are!

I expect some people will recommend just getting someone else to make them up but I'd like to have a go myself.  I've bought one of these https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cht172-a...-kit/?da=1 .......yet to find out if it (or my skills) will be up to the job.

Cheers for any advice.

[bashbarnard]

Any copper brake pipe will do however i prefer the copper nickle stuff its better to work with. Im assuming as it goes into the flexi that it has a male end. This is as you put it a "bubble" flare. Fenale unions have the double ones. I usually buy my brake pipe from euros they do both but ebay will be fine.


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[Frosty]

It's pretty common for the nuts to get stuck to the brake pipe when they haven't ever or for a while been undone, also when people replace brake pipes with the copper pipe the nuts often corded to each other i think due to the copper pipe. When i change brake pipes now i try to put a little bit of copper slip on the pipe where the nut will go. As for the trying to stop the nut twisting on the pipe when you undo it usually a decent soak with some penetrating fluid and work the nut back and forth can sometime free if off.

As for the brake pipe we just get stuff from local motor factors at work and it only are the £10 mark i think and i've never had too much issue with it.

Pretty sure the ends on the brake pipe are all males on 306s.

As for the tool to use i've got one of these and rate it very highly. Its easy to use and can be used on or off the car http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Franklin-Tools...Swd4tUKW7o

[Mighty306]

Thanks for the rapid replies guys.  That's really helpful.

Frosty, I had been looking at that tool as well.  If I struggle with the Clarke one I think I'll get myself one.  It may be worth getting one anyway if I need to do any flares with any pipe in situ on the car in future.

[welshpug]

if you have access to a vice then this is the tool to have

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Fla...2523915214

by hand this one is excellent, comes with the pipe shaping tool and a cutter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sykes-Pickavan...2527759018

this is the older style of the first one I linked to, well worth looking out for used ones, they don't really go wrong!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sykes-Pickavan...2343836135

[Mighty306]

Think I've just worked out from the pic below that my single flares would have to be DIN single flares to fit the metric unions as the 'bubble' flare as I described it seems to be for older UNF unions.  (Why is nothing ever simple with cars!!!).

Looks like it'll be quite an art getting them right.  Will keep me out of trouble for a while.

   

[welshpug]

yup, I've found that the best unions to use are the oem ones, so if yours arent mangled I'd re-use them.

I keep a tub of ones I've removed from scrap cars for cases where the union isn't salveagable

[Mighty306]

if you have access to a vice then this is the tool to have

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Fla...2523915214

by hand this one is excellent, comes with the pipe shaping tool and a cutter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sykes-Pickavan...2527759018

this is the older style of the first one I linked to, well worth looking out for used ones, they don't really go wrong!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sykes-Pickavan...2343836135

Cheers Welshpug.  They look like they'd do a proper job.  Have seen them but been put off by the cost.  Having said that, if I find myself doing many of my own pipes I'm sure it's the way to go & would pay for itself.  I imagine the one I've already got will be a bit fiddly and probably not really a precision tool.

---

yup, I've found that the best unions to use are the oem ones, so if yours arent mangled I'd re-use them.

I keep a tub of ones I've removed from scrap cars for cases where the union isn't salveagable

Thanks, that's definitely good to know as I would probably have ditched the old ones and gone for motor factor unions otherwise.

[Frosty]

I've never had any issue with the standard brake nuts we get from motor factors etc. As you have said your pipe is twisting on the nut any way so would be a bit of a sod to get them apart for each other.

[welshpug]

they're a bit shit quality compared to oem stuff, you also have to pay for them.

[Mighty306]

I've never had any issue with the standard brake nuts we get from motor factors etc. As you have said your pipe is twisting on the nut any way so would be a bit of a sod to get them apart for each other.

True, I don't want to spend ages battling to get the old nuts off the pipe.  I was going to replace some of the other brake pipes as well though as they're quite corroded and they're coming off for me to clean up the floor pan.  If I can rescue some of the union nuts I think I will.

[Mighty306]

So, I finally got around to purchasing a tool for making brake pipe flares n have been doing a bit of practice. No problem with the DIN flares but the double SAE flares don't seem to be wide enough even though I put some force behind the tool (turret). The DIN flares don't sit inside the concave double flare as I expected them to. My only thought is I hadn't prepped the pipe properly. Any advice gratefully received.

   

[welshpug]

if the flares are too small you need to use more pipe.

[Mighty306]

Ah-ha, that makes sense. Thanks for your advice yet again Welshpug.

[Poodle]

A lot of issues with the union getting stuck on the copper is because people over-tighten them imo. It's a hydraulic flare fitting using a soft pipe material, not a lot of force required to seal it.

[pug306driver]

In the past I have used the vice mounted sykes flare tool, the screw type rather than the lever type. This could be used on the car as it where but with the pipe needing a flare brought to the vice mounted tool.

I have used the vice mounted lever type but much prefer the vice mounted screw type.

For many years now I use the hand held sykes screw type, very versatile and a good tool, but miss the vice mounted screw type one.

Be careful with the unions, making the right type of flare for that union, din and sae, just look at the instructions.

To aid bleeding, I fit an "blank" to the feed pipe undone. All this is is a small section of pipe with the correct union and flare for the pipe being blankled. The small blank has a flattened end, meaning that when the pipe to be replaced is off, fit the blank so no fluid lost from the system, it does not drain down and empty the system.

When all work done, and the res tank flushed out ( suck old agitated fluid out, pour in new fluid and repeat till all "black" and dirty fluid is removed from the res, including the res floor etc.. ) , allow the fluid remaining in the system to syphon out, to drain out due top gravity. When new fluid starts to drip out, fit union etc and bleed in the normal way.

The old fluid will "drag" the new fluid thru the system all by its self.

NEVER reuse old fluid.

[Ben]

That tool that frosty linked to is brilliant, one of the best car relatated tools I've bought. No point spending any more than that on a flarer.