2.2 hdi air box and maf

[Paul_13]

Is this a worth  while upgrade ? Considering I'm putting the gt20 on the hdi


Will the air intake pipe round to the turbo need changing ?

[Piggy]

Duno...but I'll be using one on the stage 2 206 hdi soon... Seems from info that it be even worth it on stage1 tbh

[Paul_13]

I've just spotted a maf flexo pipe from the 2.2 and it looks like it reduces down to the 306 pipe size post maf

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Well I've just purchased the air box, maf and flexi so I'll give it a go and report back. Going to change the oe cold air intake feed as I feel it's pretty restrictive

[MY95]

This will be interesting to see if it makes any difference, how much bigger is the MAF and actually airbox/filter/intake pipes?

[Paul_13]

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[MY95]

Doesn't look like there would be much room in the bay to fit that airbox in the place of the standard airbox, its pretty cramped in there.

[Paul_13]

Was going to rearrange the pipe work at some point in the engine bay

[Frosty]

This will be interesting to see if it makes any difference, how much bigger is the MAF and actually airbox/filter/intake pipes?

Pretty sure the Mafs on the 2.2 are 80mm compared to the 70mm on the 2 litres

[Piggy]

Yeah bigger...how much "mass" they will flow is the critical. Sensor too. 2.2 is far better

[Paul_13]

I'll give it a go, want to try and get the biggest supply pipe to the turbo also, wish I had a tig welder. Can get the pipe no problem

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Yeah bigger...how much "mass" they will flow is the critical. Sensor too. 2.2 is far better

If they're fitted on the v6 they must be able to flow a fair bit! Listed on the ebay ad for fitting the v6

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Just realised the reducer flexi I busy bought will only fit the 406 intake pipe (which I have luckily) but there must be a way of making a bigger system to serve the turbo. Space is tight but it must be possible.

Only issue is this has got to be done over a weekend unless I insure the wife on the 205 when that's up and running :/

[MY95]

Look forward to hearing the results with this, should help a lot as the MAF even at stage 1 is out of its range when your on the throttle 100% IIRC on Whippy's previous thread, guessing it with have to be mapped again to take into account the new MAF limiters etc?

[Poodle]

If that's the larger maf you'll need it mapped in as the calibrations are different.

[Paul_13]

I was aware of that, I'll be in touch with hdi tuning when and if the time comes

[welshpug]

same size as the 110 maf, but i think both the 8v mafs are the same electrically where the 16v isnt.

[MY95]

Interesting, no remap needed if you got the bigger 110 MAF then, yet same gain as the 2.2hdi one.

[toseland]

still different calibrations though surely, 80cm air will cool the wire less at a given volume/second than the 70cm one, the velocity is higher!

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I'll give it a go, want to try and get the biggest supply pipe to the turbo also, wish I had a tig welder. Can get the pipe no problem

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Yeah bigger...how much "mass" they will flow is the critical. Sensor too. 2.2 is far better

If they're fitted on the v6 they must be able to flow a fair bit! Listed on the ebay ad for fitting the v6

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Just realised the reducer flexi I busy bought will only fit the 406 intake pipe (which I have luckily) but there must be a way of making a bigger system to serve the turbo. Space is tight but it must be possible.

Only issue is this has got to be done over a weekend unless I insure the wife on the 205 when that's up and running :/

you can zqueeze 57mm in there..  the S2000 airfilter will clamp onto the OD of 57mm id silicone (around the alu tubing i have)..  my restriction comes in nearer the turbo which now has a 52mm inlet around under the master cylinder.. space is TIGHT down there..  have a look at mine when you are around at teh shows next.

[Poodle]

There are 2 different mafs fitted to that engine, one is bigger, the other is the same as a 306 afaik.

[Paul_13]

It's not THAT much bigger



Also that airbox is for the larger 2.2 hdi maf sensor, there's also a larger air intake to connect into compared to the 2.0
hdi

Get rid of the snorkel on the slam panel for something through the rallye blanks maybe?

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Going to try and use it and reroute the air intake to gain more room towards the rad. Hopefully the plugs are the same 2.0 vs 2.2 maf's

[pro_steve]

There are two different MAFs, the big one does have a different calibration. Some of the 2.2 engines come with the small MAF too.
The small one can flow 570 Kg/hr, the other is 770Kg/hr

[Paul_13]

I'll definitely go with the larger one then. Just need to buy a maf

[Bigcjlad]

Ive put the larger 2.2 maf and air box on my stage1 and noticed quiet a difference. Obviously needs to be mapped in to get full gains but it pulls harder thru the gears so definitely worth fitting imo

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[DeeTurbo]

Ive put the larger 2.2 maf and air box on my stage1 and noticed quiet a difference. Obviously needs to be mapped in to get full gains but it pulls harder thru the gears so definitely worth fitting imo

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I'm surprised it even ran without without a calibration. Did it smoke anymore then normal and have you any photos of your install?

[Bigcjlad]

Ive put the larger 2.2 maf and air box on my stage1 and noticed quiet a difference. Obviously needs to be mapped in to get full gains but it pulls harder thru the gears so definitely worth fitting imo

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I'm surprised it even ran without without a calibration. Did it smoke anymore then normal and have you any photos of your install?

It smokes less if im honest. Ill get some photos of it tomorrow

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[DeeTurbo]

Does the MAF go to the standard metal pipe that goes to the turbo inlet or did you make a larger pipe up?

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[boggs]

I installed a xantia hdi airbox onto my 306 hdi as the person before had a cone filter on. I don't have a standard hdi 306 airbox to compare the size of the xantia one so I am wondering is it much bigger than a stock 306 hdi? It seemed a very tight squeeze

[Poodle]

It's not a lot different size-wise, just the shape is not so ideally suited to the space available.

[JTaylor2005]

Im curious now. How does it benefit the stage 1 map? Is it because it runs out of measuring ability and then excess fuel has to be used to keep power up or does it just run lean as the maf can't measure any more air?

If BigCjlad fitted one without calibration I'm guessing it would smoke less as having the bigger maf means it would detect less air flow so inject less fuel? But that wouldn't match the better pull through the gears?

[toseland]

Fitting it without calibration means it will be sending false readings to the ecu.

Not sure which way round it is but as it coverts it to a voltage this could result in under or over fueling.

If for example the signal being provided for air is lower than the large maf for the smaller maf at the same volume then it will underfuel, and visa versa

I should imagine e the larger diameter will impart a lower air velocity and hence a lower temperature reduction of the wire, and hence it will read less fuel is needed

[Ruan]

Just thought people would be interested if you take the calibrations of the two different sensors and interpolate the values onto the same axis:



I would debate that the sensors are any different in terms of their maximum mass rate value. I've not actually tested this, but I reckon the larger 2.2 sensor would actually max out at a lower airmass rate than the "maximum" airmass figures people mention when referring to anwLMM_MAX.

I suspect this is a combined reason - it enables the larger sensors to be compatible across 2.2/2.0 HDis without a software change, as I know that some 8v 110s have the larger sensor... It also means that there is much better resolution at low airmass rates which is advantageous... The accuracy is very important for monitoring EGR flow also, not just in terms of providing limitation to prevent smoke.

The reason that we see an improvement in ability to measure airmass when the 2.2 sensor is used is actually a side effect of increasing other values inside the ECU that allow the higher airmass values to be used.

Not to mention - if you go off what the sensor could read at the full 577kg/h it says it's capable of @4000rpm - you could inject enough fuel on an 8v HDi to make about 220lb.ft @ 4000rpm = ~165hp with an AFR of 16.5:1. We just can't use the airflow figure because of what I said above.

[JTaylor2005]

That's an interesting read. So basically you get a more accurate measure as it has more plots points I suppose. And then what stuff is adjusted then that could make a difference or is that a trade secret that tuners wanna keep?