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+--- Thread: The Racetractor. The End. (/showthread.php?tid=8415)
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RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Toms306 - 06-12-2014
Do they guarantee it to your level of torque? If so surely they have to replace/refurb it?
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 06-12-2014
Well they suggest the STAGE3 paddle clutch, which this is, will hold 40% more torque.
So thats about 203/204 ft lbs of torque. Which in my opinion can be achieved with a stage1 tune.
And on the dyno it ran 350ft lbs.
Hmmm.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Toms306 - 06-12-2014
Oh dear.
That's obviously considerably more than they're expecting. I know they'll build a tolerance into that to cover themselves but that's a hell of a lot more lol! Not sure what to suggest really, doubt anyone will make a clutch to take that much torque with this engine!
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 06-12-2014
That torque is a conservative tune aswell
Now I got the ARPs I want more boost n fuel in it soon!
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Toms306 - 06-12-2014
Hmm, only option I can see is weld the clutch together and make clutchless changes...might get through gearboxes quickly though...
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 06-12-2014
I make a lot of clutchless changes anyway to be honest.
Hmmmmm
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Danny Wideboy - 06-12-2014
Bad news dude.
How many miles since the re-furb?
Makes me wonder what route I am gonna go down with mine. Not much positive has been said about CG paddles TBH.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - bashbarnard - 06-12-2014
What other clutches are available for that sorta torque though
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 06-12-2014
Done about 2000 miles since refurb I think.
Duno about other options...anyone got any suggestions?!
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 07-12-2014
I have been pondering on this for sometime today.
This is a real crossroads moment I think.
I love the car, I love the 306, I am very happy with what I have achieved with my 'hobby'.
But a custom clutch could see a £500 pricetag.
If I am honest, I don't always see me owning this...
I want an evo when i'm 30. Cant afford it yet.
But I do have another turbo 4wd jap car in mind that I could afford and I'm not doing the mileage in the 306 like last year which required the MPGz/oil running.......really tricky.
I love my car.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Toms306 - 07-12-2014
Why not just detune it slightly to where the clutch doesn't slip for winter and see how it goes after? Cold and wet roads aren't ideal for power anyway.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Dum-Dum - 07-12-2014
(06-12-2014, 11:27 AM)Piggy Wrote: Well they suggest the STAGE3 paddle clutch, which this is, will hold 40% more torque.
So thats about 203/204 ft lbs of torque. Which in my opinion can be achieved with a stage1 tune.
And on the dyno it ran 350ft lbs.
Hmmm.
See my opinion is that their uprated clutch should hold 40% more than a standard clutch and a new standard valeo holds 280lb/ft (well a little over).
40% of 280lb/ft is 112lb/ft meaning if it holds 40% more it should take 392lb/ft surely?
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - zx_volcane - 07-12-2014
shitter on the clutch slip
for now, just toruqe limit your arduino map, ie limit boost at lower revs - jobs a good 'un?
can still make big power by pushing the torque up the rev range
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 07-12-2014
Its not a revvy motor though.
And it slips at around 2800/3000k rpm.
It needs a torque limiter for 1st n 2nd gear.
40% of a 1.9dt only means holding to 200ft lbs ish.
And no, a standard valeo does NOT hold 280ft lbs Dumdum!!
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Dum-Dum - 07-12-2014
(07-12-2014, 07:09 PM)Piggy Wrote: Its not a revvy motor though.
And it slips at around 2800/3000k rpm.
It needs a torque limiter for 1st n 2nd gear.
40% of a 1.9dt only means holding to 200ft lbs ish.
And no, a standard valeo does NOT hold 280ft lbs Dumdum!!
It f*cking does mate, I had a standard XUD valeo on an XU flywheel on my silver estate and that dyno'd at 283lb/ft with no clutch slip
2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Frosty - 07-12-2014
I got a new valeo in the estate same set up as dum dum as it is his old car and that's just about holding on and I expect that to be far torque. Pretty sure Ruan just ran a valeo in his dt and that dyno'd at 300ft lbs I think
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 07-12-2014
Depends where it was making that torque.
But my standard valeo was slipping after only a couple thousand when I had the GT2056s, and I dont think I was running 280ft lbs, not enough fuel for sure for that.
Interesting to know though and will be letting CG know.
I wonder if just a heavier pressure plate would do it??
Coz its pretty light for a paddle clutch to be honest
2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Frosty - 07-12-2014
You got CG pressure plate as well?
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 07-12-2014
Yeah. Full CG stg3 kit. Been sent to CG and refurbed just before fitting too.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Ruan - 07-12-2014
Don't go off of me - mine slipped badly whenever I turned up the power, when the moon was just right and the stars aligned, the clutch would hold, but if the clutch was remotely cold, it'd slip, once fully warm with a clean surface, it would just hold the full potato... I reckon the realistic limit for a stock XUD9 Valeo is about 270-280lb.ft - even then it isn't going to last long.
It's just that you can get the single plate CG on the XUD pull style clutch for £notmuch - hence the reason for sticking with it.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - HDi--Power - 08-12-2014
(07-12-2014, 09:37 PM)Piggy Wrote: Yeah. Full CG stg3 kit. Been sent to CG and refurbed just before fitting too.
The CG pressure plate is just a standard Valeo with 3 grooves machined into it. It has no higher clamping pressure than oem, all the extra torque holding ability comes from the center plate, so you could in theory just buy a helix uprated pressure plate and hold mega torque.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Poodle - 08-12-2014
Stop buying the CG crap and put a proper clutch in, don't know why people insist on using them repeatedly. Think it might also be a bit late to worry about spending too much on the car lol.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 08-12-2014
(08-12-2014, 12:16 AM)HDi--Power Wrote:(07-12-2014, 09:37 PM)Piggy Wrote: Yeah. Full CG stg3 kit. Been sent to CG and refurbed just before fitting too.
The CG pressure plate is just a standard Valeo with 3 grooves machined into it. It has no higher clamping pressure than oem, all the extra torque holding ability comes from the center plate, so you could in theory just buy a helix uprated pressure plate and hold mega torque.
Really!?!? This true!? Geeeeeeeese
Guess that would be the weak point then!!
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - darrenjlobb - 08-12-2014
Is your CG a paddle? or just standard clutch?
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Dave - 08-12-2014
Uprated CG paddle for mine is used with a stock valeo clutch plate. Pressure plate on mine is re-used from a busted car out the scrapyard, and never let me down with 280ftlb+
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 08-12-2014
I dont mean to get shirty...but I keep getting asked the same question...
I am running a stage 3 CG paddle clutch.
It was refurbed by CG before i fitted it.
Its done 2000k miles ish.
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 08-12-2014
Remember also we are talking 350ft lbs at 3000rpm, perhaps a touch more now as I actually had a manifold to turbo link pipe leak when it went on the dyno.
And 350ft lbs "at the fly" was calculated with a very low transmission loss so while I dont wish to be guessing, it could be nearer 400
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Piggy - 08-12-2014
(330 ft lbs at the wheels...so they allowed a 6.5% loss...allow a 15% loss and you get close to 380ft lbs)
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Paul_13 - 08-12-2014
Could you leaking oil from somewhere and it's contaminated the fly wheel? Crank seal letting by?
Oil breather system pressurising?
RE: 2.1GTd...Clutch slip - Ruan - 08-12-2014
Seriously, I don't think on the stock clutch size, you're going to foind much more holding force, frankly I'm impressed that it's holding 350lb.ft... You're now into the realms of multi plate clutch packs - that's IMHO about the only way unless you're wanting to switch to a very heavy pressure plate and go hydraulic.
Your other option is to turn down the torque midrange and work on getting the fuel in past 4000rpm, 350lb.ft is more than good enough at lower RPMs, get the fuel in up high and you'll be looking towards 250-300hp, that's all that's holding you back really.