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+--- Forum: XUD Section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: XUD Issue (/showthread.php?tid=4932)
XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 16-07-2012
This is an ongoing issue I've been helping a mate with (c.gerrard on here)
Just before FCS, he suddenly lost all power. We couldn't see anything wrong, but I suspected it could be a fuelling issue, there was no smoke at all, and the power deliver was very similar to a NAD (flat power curve, smooth though, just no power)
He'd been having issues with white/grey smoke when the engine was cold, but on two occasions it was idling fine, left on the drive, then it started missing and kicking out smoke. I turned it off and straight back on again, and it was fine
We started it up after changing the pump and there was massive amounts of greyish white smoke, idling rough etc. we checked everything we could, there was no pressurising of the coolant, everything seemed fine.
We decided to lift the head, and found that the valves had had a disagreement with the pistons, we're now thinking that we got the belt a tooth out when we changed the pump
So got a head from the scrapyard, put it on, crossed everything and fired it up. It was late at night, and we couldn't tell what colour, but there was smoke.
Got it running the following day, and there was a good amount of blue/grey smoke. Let it warm up, then gave it a run up and down the drive (a long drive) the smoke on idle cleared and, apart from an epic boost leak (didn't do the jubilee tight enough), all seemed well, and it seemed to be running standard(ish) power.
Carl went home from work today and started it up, the blue/grey smoke is back. I suggested removing the I/C as if the turbo seals were gone, doing that would stop the oil getting from the turbo to the cylinders (I think that's right anyway) This made no difference. He's going to post a couple of pictures in here, one with the I/C on, one without.
I'm thinking either:
Piston rings (the engine was sat unused for a long time before he bought it, could they have seized to the bores and broken when it was started?)
Valve stem seals (duff head from the scrappy?)
Or turbo seal and I'm wrong about removing the intercooler to check this.
It's on 67,000 by the way.
EDIT: He's just told me it's running clean now, he turned it off to replace the intercooler, and when he re started it, it's running clean with NO smoke what so ever. What the actual f**k? Intermittent burning of oil? Now I'm really confused!
RE: XUD Issue - c.gerrard - 16-07-2012
My thoughts on it are:
Not sure if you've been following my issues in my project thread and so to make a long story short, I've been having chronic blue smoke on start up and doesn't clear up after leaving it running for a few minutes or when revs are applied.
The car has head a new head, head gasket, inlet & exhaust manifold gasket, cambelt, fuel pump and glow plugs put on. The coolant is not being pressurised and there is no less of power, although there was intially when it broke.
When driving it yesterday, it was running clear out the tail pipe and black smoking, when properly ragging it, so the problem seems to be intermitent, which just makes no sense.
I'm just at a complete loss as to what it could be now. Due to it being quite a low milegae, on 67,000, i'm reluctant to think its something as chronic a blown piston rings. With the problem happening on different heads, fuel pump, could there be an issue in the bottom end of the block or turbo?
RE: XUD Issue - Jarrus - 16-07-2012
To be fair, what you've already said would be my diagnosis,
But then again at 67,000 miles that engine should be fine, I would say it's the stem seals in that head from the scrappers, you've know idea where it's been and I bet it's see rather a lot more miles than the rest of the engine...
Has it been well maintained and warmed up and cooled properly?
To paint you a picture I bought my 306 Vivant TD from a peugeot dealer when it was 9 years old (1998 r plate) with just 25,500 miles on itand a full pug service history, its now on 77,000 miles on that engine and I never had a single thing go wrong with it..... nothing.... except I bust a rod, because I put a Garrett GT2560R on it... and I have a 205 1.8td and thats done 75,000 miles with service history, had to replace the rocker cover gasket on it and again nothing else went wrong...
so yeah Id say the head now if you're confident that the timing is now correct....
RE: XUD Issue - c.gerrard - 16-07-2012
1st picture is with the intercooler off
2nd picture is with it back on again
There is literally a minute between each of those photos, after knocking the engine off and back on again it has cleared the smoke!!!
RE: XUD Issue - Jarrus - 16-07-2012
(16-07-2012, 06:58 PM)c.gerrard Wrote: 1st picture is with the intercooler off
2nd picture is with it back on again
There is literally a minute between each of those photos, after knocking the engine off and back on again it has cleared the smoke!!!
I'd say your problem is turbo then...
RE: XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 16-07-2012
yeah, but I bet if he goes out and starts it now, it'll smoke....
RE: XUD Issue - Jarrus - 16-07-2012
Just realised it's not yoru car... lol
I'd say valve stem seals..
RE: XUD Issue - c.gerrard - 16-07-2012
I don't see how it can be an intermitent turbo issue, surely if its knackered, then its knackered?
Turning the engine off and on again can't fix a car!!! Its not a computer haha
RE: XUD Issue - Jarrus - 16-07-2012
lol yeah... I get that..lol
Like I said I realise it's your car we are talking about...
But yeah, problem would point to your valve steam seals... you've no idea what kind of condition that head you bought is in..
RE: XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 18-07-2012
Well, It's stopped!
Clean as a whistle now, no smoke even when stone cold.
No idea what that was all about, ah well, maybe we'll find out in the future!
RE: XUD Issue - c.gerrard - 18-07-2012
" No idea what that was all about, ah well, maybe we'll find out in the future! "
DON'T YOU F*UCKING DARE SAY THAT!!!!!!!!!
RE: XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 18-07-2012
I meant if/when you throw a rod with chronic boost and we take the engine to bits
Re: XUD Issue - daz_derby - 18-07-2012
Have you tried disconnecting the egr valve? Green plug behind the back of the battery, when engine is cold, use small screwdriver to remove a slide pin then remove plug. Mine would blow loads of smoke and have no power once warm untill I did this, now its fine running 20psi for a year no probs
RE: XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 18-07-2012
welcome to the forum!
Err, it's already de - egr'd, the whole lot has been removed!
RE: XUD Issue - c.gerrard - 18-07-2012
Yes, don't need that EGR rubbish, most pointless thing ever fitted
Re: XUD Issue - daz_derby - 18-07-2012
Ta very muchly, rule the egr out then
Could it be worn injectors?
RE: XUD Issue - Ruan - 18-07-2012
Possible jammed injector when cold...
Get a screwdriver out and stick it on the injector body and shove it in your ear, see if one sounds different to the rest when it's smoking it's ass off.
Blue smoke doesn't necessarily mean oil on a diesel, diesel burning can range from bright white, to dark grey, to blue, to thick black, depending on what stage of burning it was at when it left the cylinder.
RE: XUD Issue - Jonny81191 - 18-07-2012
hmm, good shout that, maybe that's why it's fixed itself/intermittent?
I'll get Carl to pull a spare set out of the scrapyard at some point.