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Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Ed Doe - 07-07-2012
Well it seems I'm still not out of the woods yet.
It seems that despite the attending polic officer saying "Well I'm not breathalysing you as my assessment is it was a genuine accident" the people back at the station have decided that "an examination of this case indicates that there is sufficient evidence to prodecute you for the offence of 'careless driving'... ...If proceedings were to be brought it would be a matter for the Magistrates Court to decide whether or not you have broken the law."
Conveniently they "consider it appropriate to offer me an opportunity to attend a Drivers Alertness Course, where [i] wil benefit considerably from my attendance on this course and ultimately gain knowledge and skills to enable me to become a safer driver."
At the cost of £162.48.
I am speechless.
Anyone have any advice at all on this? The letter says if I decline the course I wont be offered it again, and will have to go to court. If I go to court and lose I coud face a large fine, points on my license, and worse a motoring conviction, which means my premium will take a MASSIVE hike next year...
On the flipside, if the police lose the case, the worst they have to do is pay the costs. Which I think is just bollocks.
Have I got it out of perspective here? Am I in the wrong completely, is it just part of the parcel of having a knock? I'm fecking steaming that not only do I have to pay the damage I have caused (which is completely fair cop, these things just happen), but I'm now being told I have to pay to be told how to drive!!
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - spike2002 - 07-07-2012
Pay the £162.48 saves the hastle of court exc and then you dont risk geting points or a bigger fine
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
So what your saying is that if you go on this course, your clear? No court or points for dangerous driving? If so, I know it's £150 and it's almost like giving in to them even though your not in the wrong but it will be worth doing. Dangerous driving points do put your premium up!
Or go to court and plead with them and as part of your story for not going on the course, say your going to put the money towards some 4 pots,,,,
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Anton - 07-07-2012
^^^^ repped ha
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Ed Doe - 07-07-2012
Not really in the mood for 4-pot comments. Can we keep on topic please.
Thanks for the advice so far. It was prettymuch what I was gonna do already, just wanted a few other opinions before taking the hit
It just sucks so much.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
(07-07-2012, 05:52 PM)Ed Doe Wrote: Not really in the mood for 4-pot comments. Can we keep on topic please.
Thanks for the advice so far. It was prettymuch what I was gonna do already, just wanted a few other opinions before taking the hit
It just sucks so much.
Just remember once you've done the course, they won't let you do it again. So if you get done speeding, you will just get a fine. No offer of the course.
Just do it mate. I know it's 150 quid but it's the easy way out.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Eeyore - 07-07-2012
its bullshit mate and they cant really lose out either way but you can lose out massively! id probably just pay the monies and get it out of the way!
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Connor - 07-07-2012
Oh come on! That was comedy gold!
In all seriousness, I am quite shocked. Ive had 2 crashes, 1 of which was a shitload more serious that your fender bender and had 2 letters stating that "there wasnt enough evidence...blahblahblah"
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - kernow_joe - 07-07-2012
I had a crash similar to yours, hit the back of someone, my fault, and got made to go on driver improvement course or face court and possible dangerous driving conviction, do the course not worth the risk tbh, just basically attend, chat shit,drive around for a day, not too much time taken out of your life, but again was on week days so meant time off work so ended up costing more!!
as said not a lot you can do about it but suck it up and get on with it
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Jonny81191 - 07-07-2012
I'd do the course... You stand to lose a LOT more than 160 quid if you get done for dangerous driving.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Gunge - 07-07-2012
Pay the fee and put it behind i would
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - puglove - 07-07-2012
In all honesty Ed if it was me id fight it! Dont give in because if you were not driving dangerously then there will be no evedence to convict you. Stand your ground and make your point! And like i say if you have done nothing wrong there is no evedence. Dont get taken for a ride by the system. And save the offer of a course for wheb you have genuinly made a mistake and need to hold your hands up for it.
If the situation is as it seems it would of though i would have no choice but to go your way.
Just my point of view mate, do what you see fit
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - cully - 07-07-2012
they obviously think they have enough evidence to prosecute you
take the £150 bail out option unless you can afford the insurance hike and the points which stay on your licence for 5 years
which this alone can prejudice possible employers present and future
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
Thing is though he doesn't have much of a chance in court.
End of the day, the accident was eds fault and he was obviously too close for the conditions. (sorry ed. not slating you mate but it's how they will look at it).
Best to take the easy way out. Hurt the wallet and pride but you may loose a lot more through court.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Scott - 07-07-2012
I don't see why he won't have a chance in court. The officer who wrote the accident assessment would be required to be there, and he himself said that you weren't driving too close, and informed you that the driver you crashed into had told him you weren't driving erratically or too close for the conditions, or that he even knew you were there. The other driver locked his brakes as well, is he being given a course or court order? I'm going to guess not.
But anyway, the officer would be required to be there, and he would most likely be reading from his notes taken at the scene. You would be able to explain your situation in relation to the cyclist who you had swerved to avoid due to the BMW driver reversing erratically (both of whom promptly f*cked off - but did the police ever investigate what was said about the BMW driver, as considering he was reversing out I would presume he lived in the house or at least knows the occupants).
I understand why people are suggesting to go for the course, but in the first instance I think you should respond with what the attending officer had said to you at the scene and ask for explanation as to why this would constitute a summons for either a driver awareness course or to a court hearing.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
But the law says that you have to leave enough of a gap to respond no matter how the guy in front is driving. I know in a real world scenario, ed wasn't really at fault. The whole scenario was not in eds favour at all but the law won't take that into account. The law just looks at it in black and white which is ed drove into the back of someone.
Got to think is it worth the gamble? You might be 150 better off if you go to court but you may also be a lot worse off in the long run if you loose.
Also, if you go for another job, a lot of companies will frown apon points on your licence. The blagging I had to do for my job because of my points was unreal!
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - puglove - 07-07-2012
Was it not on a corner also? If so has was Ed to no the driver infront was about to slam the brakes round the corner?
IMO from what the officer at the sence said i think Ed does have a chance in court and a good one at that. Im with scott on this one.
RE: Urgent Advice My Diablo Crash - Connor - 07-07-2012
(07-07-2012, 06:46 PM)puglove Wrote: Was it not on a corner also? If so has was Ed to no the driver infront was about to slam the brakes round the corner?
No, but you should be driving with enough room to allow that to happen
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - kingy - 07-07-2012
i personaly would take it to court, these toss pot police take to much for granted and to many people bow down to then. if your not to blame them take it to court and have your say. kick up a fuss mate and if you win then think of compensation.
but if you do decide to go on the course then carnt you tell your insurance that you have attended said and you might get a lower premium. not to sure on this but its worth looking into. that way you might get your money back if you know what i mean.
but if it was me i would take it further and stand up for what you know is right.
good luck.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - lolsteve - 07-07-2012
They must be desperate for funds to be digging up past cases to see if they can fine/"educate" you for a cost. Personally I'd pay the £150, you don't have to worry anymore and you might learn something usful (unlikley)
If you lost the court case you'd be in a whole world of shite that I'm sure you could do without
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
(07-07-2012, 07:15 PM)lolsteve Wrote: They must be desperate for funds to be digging up past cases to see if they can fine/"educate" you for a cost. Personally I'd pay the £150, you don't have to worry anymore and you might learn something usful (unlikley)
If you lost the court case you'd be in a whole world of shite that I'm sure you could do without
It's a current case. They would have to notify ed of closing the case for 'lack of evidence'
The law basically says if you go into the back of someone it's your fault wether it was normal conditions or it was icy on a bend. It's still your fault. Only time it's not is if the guy in front rolls/reverses into you.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Grant - 07-07-2012
I'm with Scott on this one. Many people will disagree but I think they are trying to screw you through the system. They see a young male driver and automatically assume they are a yob.
If it was me I would argue it. I'm not saying its the right thing to do, but just what line I would take. As said, the officer at the scene has said what he has said. Will he receive a disciplinary for failing to analyse the scene of an accident appropriately? I think not. What evidence could thy possibly have to support such accusations?
Utter bollocks if you ask me.
Not that it's worth much but if you require a reference, I have been in a car with you and can vouch you are a safe, courteous and observant driver...
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
It won't be because of his age though. It will be because he smashed into the back of someone. Best thing ed can do is explain the story. Although it was his fault, as I said earlier in real terms, it wasn't really but the law only sees things in black and white.
It's too much of a gamble to go through court. You could/probably will end up worse off.
And you never know, they might teach you about better racing lines to avoid the situation! Haha
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Fooby - 07-07-2012
i agree with scott and co, as well as nialls view.
Personally, i would respond with something along the lines of "before any decision is made, i wish to be provided all evidence collected so an informed decision can be made"
basically, afaik (scott can probably correct me) you are entitled to a fair trial etc and before you make a choice i'd of thought you'd be allowed to see all evidence? or is that if he decides to go to trial?
I'd also question a sneaky approach, do a freedom of information request to police, forcing them to release all information they hold about you.
Not quite sure if i've made sense, but hopefully you can understand the side view im trying to take on this.
For the record ed, your probably one of the safest drivers i've been with and it think its utterally bullshit they are trying to shaft you. I spend a lot of time on the road (even on the way home today) someone nearly took me out because they were a wanker. I see so much bad driving.
I'd be going to far to say police punish all decent/good drivers because i doubt thats true, its most likely only the decent drivers that feel unjust about it make a noise.
Best of luck mate
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
Fooby it's not other drivers that would of reported him. Any accident that the police get involved on they automatically investigate. Police would of got involved seeing as ed had to leave the car at the scene.
It's bad luck....really bad luck but that's how the system works. Gaining the info the police have on ed won't help one bit. What's happened has happened and if he goes to court, all he can do is hope he gets a sympathetic trial. If he looses, he gets court fees (much more than 150 plus points - thus increased insurance premium.
As I said, I know it seems like your going along with the system but is it worth the risk when you could just pay £150 and it's all done with!
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Toby - 07-07-2012
Just to clarify Fooby, Ed can request any evidence which holds relevance to what has happened, but the Police can (and almost certainly will) refuse the request. Until Ed agrees to proceed to trial they have no obligation to show their hand.
That being said, it quite often happens that the defendant chooses to go to trial, and the Police/CPS THEN drop the charges due to lack of evidence or otherwise. So you could get lucky.
Edit:
The following situations are also exempt from the Freedom of Information Act:
international relations, defence, national security or public safety;
the course of justice; (This one, in Ed's case)
intellectual property rights (trade marks, copyright etc);
the confidentiality of proceedings;
commercial confidentiality;
the interests of the supplier of the information, where supply was voluntary; or
the protection of the environment.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - lewisdmz - 07-07-2012
£150 is nothing really in the scheme of things and like others have said in court you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on for going into the back of someone.
Have a search around on the internet there may be some sort of get-out situation e.g. mud on the road? I dunno.
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Niall - 07-07-2012
(07-07-2012, 09:21 PM)lewisdmz Wrote: £150 is nothing really in the scheme of things and like others have said in court you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on for going into the back of someone.
Have a search around on the internet there may be some sort of get-out situation e.g. mud on the road? I dunno.
He's got a leg to stand on. It wasn't standard circumstances.
There is no get out for driving into the back of someone. It's black and white. If you drive into someone, it's your fault. You should be driving to the conditions.
He could stand a chance. But is it worth it?
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - Poodle - 07-07-2012
This officer who was at the scene, i assume you have his shoulder number? Would it be possible to get in contact and ask him what you think the situation is, there's a chance he might have something useful to contribute. Also, family solicitor..?
RE: Urgent Advice RE: My Diablo Crash - lewisdmz - 07-07-2012
Ok so a quick google suggests there may be a certain amount of blame you can direct to others for their actions but the primary blame will still fall on Ed for failing to leave adaquate distance.
http://www.bllaw.co.uk/services_for_individuals/personal_injury/news_and_updates/rtas_-_rear_end_shunts.aspx