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+--- Forum: DW10 HDi section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) (/showthread.php?tid=36328)
Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 22-09-2017
Hello! My name is Adrian and i'm on a hunt for a pug 306 dturbo( i want the xud9 cause i'm gonna use veg). The problem with dturbo's is they are scarce in my country ,and the available ones are pretty beaten-up. The hdi is readily available and dirt cheap. The legislation here won't allow me to swap an older engine into a newer chassis without paying humongous fees for the homologation. So i'm left with one solution, buying an hdi 306 and convert the engine to indirect injection (BOSCH VE Mechanical Fuel Injection Pump, XUD9TE HEAD, XUD11 pistons, and a bigger turbo
) I'm here to ask the gurus if this conversion is doable and reliable! Also what parts are needed ??!
Thx for the info , much appreciated!
Btw i have a bit of mechanical knowledge , and aslo a 406 xud runing on 100%wvo
Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - bashbarnard - 22-09-2017
You cant convert hdi to indirect injection. However you can make it run a ve pump which will in turn run veg. However its a lot of work but it is possible. Just need a few bits. Mechanical ve pump, injectors, lines, a few more ve pump bits to get the chosen injectors to work etc. Ive done it myself at one point so i know its possible.
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RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 22-09-2017
Ok , thx for the info ! i thought dw10 is the same block as xud9 , and replacing internal components will get me an effective xud. This is a letdown
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Uberderv - 22-09-2017
The fuel system is not the only issue when running veg oil, ring gumming can occur from cold starts on veg oil. I'd look into a twin tank system instead of pissing about with VE pumps etc.....
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Piggy - 22-09-2017
You could do what you are planning I believe.
As you say, xud head, xud pistons. Don't think xud11 pistons will fit mind. Need Xud9.
But surely in trying to get all those things...may as well find a a complete Xud9 engine!
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - welshpug - 22-09-2017
xud pistons will be like a dick in a shirtsleeve, given a DW10 is 85mm bore, and XUD9 83mm.
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 22-09-2017
(22-09-2017, 07:13 PM)welshpug Wrote: xud pistons will be like a dick in a shirtsleeve, given a DW10 is 85mm bore, and XUD9 83mm.
xud11 is also 85mm bore. xud11 pistons do fit in dw10. Someone form citroen french forum told me you can make a xud engine from a dw10 block with xud9 8 valve head and xud11 pistons. He wasn't more specific wich parts are needed to complete the project, tho !!
(22-09-2017, 07:01 PM)Piggy Wrote: But surely in trying to get all those things...may as well find a a complete Xud9 engine!
I can't get the car road worthy with a xud9 in it.It will cost me an arm and a leg , the fees for homologation are way above the car worth
(22-09-2017, 02:35 PM)Uberderv Wrote: The fuel system is not the only issue when running veg oil, ring gumming can occur from cold starts on veg oil. I'd look into a twin tank system instead of pissing about with VE pumps etc.....
With my xud9 406 , i had no problems with veg cold starts , even in winter. But it's an idi engine and it's not prone to ring gumming as DI ones.
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Piggy - 23-09-2017
(22-09-2017, 07:13 PM)welshpug Wrote: xud pistons will be like a dick in a shirtsleeve, given a DW10 is 85mm bore, and XUD9 83mm.
Ah interesting fact
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Uberderv - 23-09-2017
Sorry didn't read the original post properly, I missed the bit that said head too
Why not look at the twin tank fuel system and keep the HDI engine as is? Intercooler + decat + remap = 150hp+
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - JTaylor2005 - 24-09-2017
So you can run HDIs on veg oil?? I thought that was a proper no-no due to it ruining the fuel pump and injectors?
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Magenta Sunset - 24-09-2017
(24-09-2017, 06:27 PM)JTaylor2005 Wrote: So you can run HDIs on veg oil?? I thought that was a proper no-no due to it ruining the fuel pump and injectors?
this puzzles me too
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Piggy - 24-09-2017
There is a lad who has done like 30k on a 2.2 8v HDi Peugeot van, 70/30 mix. No issues yet
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 25-09-2017
You can't run veg more than 25-30% on hdi's, the pump & injectors will fail quickly. I get mixed signals from several forums specialized on citroen & pugs! Some say both xud blocks and dw10 block are almost the same , and the xud9 head should fit on dw10 block with the proper pistons (xud11). Others say you can't fit the xud head because the blocks have different dimensions, also you can't mount a xud bosch pump on dw10 , they say.!
Can anyone shed some light on these arguments , i really need it !
If not , i'm forced to get a 206 instead of a 306. There's plenty of 206's with DW8 (probably all lucas/delphy) ,but if i can't find a bosch one , i will get the lucas and retrofit the bosch after. My Gf needs a small car asap, she drives the alfa 159 2.2jts , brilliant car but has terrible gas mileage!
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - welshpug - 25-09-2017
the important dimensions are all the same, however there are differences in mounting drilling and bosses etc.
are the XUD11 pistons the same height as XUD9? and the pin size the same?
tbh with the minimal difference in price these days I'd just run a HDI, theyr'e better on fuel as well.
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 25-09-2017
(25-09-2017, 09:13 AM)welshpug Wrote: the important dimensions are all the same, however there are differences in mounting drilling and bosses etc.
are the XUD11 pistons the same height as XUD9? and the pin size the same?
tbh with the minimal difference in price these days I'd just run a HDI, theyr'e better on fuel as well.
I get free waste vegetable oil , and already runing a 406 xud9 on wvo.Xud11 pistons have a longer stroke but not by much.
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43892
If i take it on his words, my main concern is fitting the xud9 bosch pump due to the dowels and bolt holes being different.
There are some folks in france who run the 8v xud9 head on a xud11 engine , so the xud11 pistons shouldn't make trouble with 8v head. The question is what crank shaft should i use with a dw10 block, xud11 pistons and xud9 8valve head? dw10 crank shaft/ xud11 crank shaft/ xud9 crank shaft ?
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - welshpug - 25-09-2017
you can't swap crankshafts without changing conrods.
dw10 and xud9 cranks are essentially the same.
I wasn't talking about the stroke of the XUD11, I mean the height of the piston, it has to be EXACTLY the same to work on an XUD9 rod and crank.
(unless you use XUD11 crank rods and pistons, that's IF the XUD11 block is the same height)
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - zx_volcane - 25-09-2017
whats the difference in 'converting' a hdi engine to IDI - when you're basically only using the same block and sacking everything else off.
just throw a xud9 / xud11 in - will look the same once you've finished?
or go mtdi on the standard dw10 engine using a bosch ve with a di camplate and suitable injectors
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 25-09-2017
It all comes down to engine code! The car will be a 306 with an hdi lump, so for the car to be roadworthy it needs to have the engine code of an hdi lump.
If it has a different engine then what's on car certificate ,it's ileagal to drive it!
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Piggy - 25-09-2017
Just transfer the engine stamp on the blocks over lol
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Poodle - 25-09-2017
As above tbh, you're going to a hell of a lot of work to exploit a legal loophole, but anyone who actually challenges you over it won't care about that. As said above - it will look the same once finished, changing the engine code on the block has just as much chance of keeping you out of court as anything else you have listed in your initial post. I suspect in reality, if ever it's a problem, the detail will become a moot point - if the authorities want to do you for it they will find a way regardless of how many hoops you've jumped through trying to keep it legal.
The only other viable option imo is mtdi, as suggested by zx-volcane.
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - TwinkleToes - 26-09-2017
How easy and practical it is to stamp a new engine code? I'm gonna try to find someone who can do this, and I want it to be done in a professional manner.
BTW, if I swap a fully mechanical xud9te into a ph2 306, do I need to keep the hdi engine loom?How do I bypass the ecu so I won't have a Christmas tree every time I start the car?
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - welshpug - 26-09-2017
fit an xud loom.
no professional will stamp the replacement engine.
RE: Converting DW10 to IDI (XUD) - Poodle - 27-09-2017
Easy enough to do, you just need to find somebody capable - shouldn't be hard given printing technology these days.