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+--- Thread: DW10 Piper cam (/showthread.php?tid=33565)
DW10 Piper cam - 306clot - 20-03-2016
Hi all!
I've put a few posts up recently regarding DW10 heads. I am currently rebuilding a head to be installed with a new gearbox mounted turbo set-up.
My question to you guy's is, are the piper cams for the HDI any good? I'm thinking since im doing the rebuild anyway and can only help the new turbo with flow. Well once mapped.
The can I am thinking about is the Fast road one
http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams/www/product.php?pid=PHDIBP270
if anyone has had any experience on this it would be very helpful as to if its worth the cost?
I have attempted to do some research and found some people that have fitted them to XUD10 and people that have had a HDI but then never fitted. But no reviews from how it actually performs.
any help is appreciated,
Thanks in advance.
Jake
RE: DW10 Piper cam - Piggy - 20-03-2016
XUD10???
RE: DW10 Piper cam - 306clot - 20-03-2016
*** XUD9
Its late in the day......
RE: DW10 Piper cam - Ruan - 20-03-2016
Spend the money you'd spend on a camshaft on getting the engine/hardware built right first time.
It's a nice thing to do once the engine is ready to take a lot of power, but usually the head is flowing more than well enough for the power people want and people get hung up on fitting parts like camshafts, having heads flowed etc, but the fuel system isn't capable and nor is the turbocharger.
Order of things to do:
1. Decent exhaust
2. Decent turbocharger
3. Decent fuel supply system (CR pump and supply pump)
4. Decent injectors
5. Make the engine hold together (conrods, valvetrain...)
6. Get head ported by someone who actually knows what they're doing.
7. Maybe then bother with a camshaft at the same time as the head being ported.
Until you're at point 7, there's money to be spent in so many other areas that will gain you so much more horsepower per £££ than a camshaft ever would.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - 306clot - 21-03-2016
(20-03-2016, 09:29 PM)Ruan Wrote: Spend the money you'd spend on a camshaft on getting the engine/hardware built right first time.
It's a nice thing to do once the engine is ready to take a lot of power, but usually the head is flowing more than well enough for the power people want and people get hung up on fitting parts like camshafts, having heads flowed etc, but the fuel system isn't capable and nor is the turbocharger.
Order of things to do:
1. Decent exhaust
2. Decent turbocharger
3. Decent fuel supply system (CR pump and supply pump)
4. Decent injectors
5. Make the engine hold together (conrods, valvetrain...)
6. Get head ported by someone who actually knows what they're doing.
7. Maybe then bother with a camshaft at the same time as the head being ported.
Until you're at point 7, there's money to be spent in so many other areas that will gain you so much more horsepower per £££ than a camshaft ever would.
Right ok looks like that alongside what i've found may have settled it. Thanks for the info.
Out of interest as you mentioned injectors. what sort of price tag are JP's nozzles that he is selling?
Thanks Jake
RE: DW10 Piper cam - toseland - 21-03-2016
if you take a look at the stickied thread at the top, he uses a piper ultimate road cam iirc (its definitely one of the SP cams from piper cams but I cant remember which one) and he is somewhere in the region of 500 horses..
JP would be the best one to ask about that but they are MANY pennies... there are viable alternatives much more cheaply for the sort of price (Alfa JTD nozzles anyone?) hell even the standard nozzles with a decent pump and rail sensor are good to over 200bhp.
I will add one caveat to Ruan's post and that is
1. Decent exhaust
1a. suitably sized (stupidly large) intercooler
2. Decent turbocharger
3. Decent fuel supply system (CR pump and supply pump) The R70 part number is CR/CP1s3/R70 0445010021, if you ebay the "00" number itll find loads
4. Decent injectors, 076 injectors are newer standard version,.
5. Make the engine hold together (conrods, valvetrain, ARP studs in the head and rods...)
6. Get head ported by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Psss... file, chisel and a lump hammer is all you need
7. Maybe then bother with a camshaft at the same time as the head being ported.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - 306clot - 21-03-2016
(21-03-2016, 01:29 PM)toseland Wrote: if you take a look at the stickied thread at the top, he uses a piper ultimate road cam iirc (its definitely one of the SP cams from piper cams but I cant remember which one) and he is somewhere in the region of 500 horses..
JP would be the best one to ask about that but they are MANY pennies... there are viable alternatives much more cheaply for the sort of price (Alfa JTD nozzles anyone?) hell even the standard nozzles with a decent pump and rail sensor are good to over 200bhp.
I will add one caveat to Ruan's post and that is
1. Decent exhaust
1a. suitably sized (stupidly large) intercooler
2. Decent turbocharger
3. Decent fuel supply system (CR pump and supply pump) The R70 part number is CR/CP1s3/R70 0445010021, if you ebay the "00" number itll find loads
4. Decent injectors, 076 injectors are newer standard version,.
5. Make the engine hold together (conrods, valvetrain, ARP studs in the head and rods...)
6. Get head ported by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Psss... file, chisel and a lump hammer is all you need
7. Maybe then bother with a camshaft at the same time as the head being ported.
Ok thanks will sure go with stock cam for now, a pump is on the list will porbs go with a R70 when the time comes to it. However, at some point I want to look at hybriding a R70 (cp1) shell to fit R85 (cp3) internals.
Thanks Jake
RE: DW10 Piper cam - Ruan - 21-03-2016
Don't bother with farting around with fitting internals of other pumps in etc...
Use a CP3S3/R85 or whatever size you'd like as normal, disconnect the ZME and use a Mercedes CDI fuel rail instead, this has a regulator just like the CP1S3 pump has on the side which you can connect up.
Then it works the same as the original CP1S3 pump, but doesn't use the CP1H/CP3S ZME inlet metering system, just uses post pump relief.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - Poodle - 21-03-2016
You'll have trouble building a hybrid pump, i think uberderv burnt out a few carbide bits trying. Better off finding someone to map for a cp3 imo.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - 306clot - 21-03-2016
Ok thats some useful information,
Thanks for the help, i'm sure there will be some more posts before its all fitted.
I'll have to make sure i do some good documentation.
Jake
RE: DW10 Piper cam - welshpug - 22-03-2016
more valves.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - Poodle - 22-03-2016
Please do, we will be watching with interest. If ever you're over Southampton way feel free to pop in for a cuppa and go through your latest theories.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - tim 306td - 01-05-2016
Jps injectors are £1000
RE: DW10 Piper cam - toseland - 07-05-2016
Even brand new from Alfa they arent that much!
RE: DW10 Piper cam - tim 306td - 10-05-2016
Yeah it was like a kick in the stones when he told me the price. I was going to get it mapped by him but done alot of searching and decided to go elsewhere
RE: DW10 Piper cam - toseland - 10-05-2016
Maps are good, the injectors match, i should clarify that what i meant was you can get a brand new set of alfa 1.9 JTD injectors for less than the cost of those albeit they are not as good, they do a damn good job for most of our needs.
RE: DW10 Piper cam - tim 306td - 10-05-2016
Im not saying they are bad or hes a bad mapper or anything like that im just saying i like what i have heard about another tuner who will not charge me the earth
RE: DW10 Piper cam - toseland - 13-05-2016
I know, was just clarifying my point to avoid drama!, seemed like I was saying he uses alfa injectors.