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+--- Thread: Lets talk hybrids (/showthread.php?tid=30683)
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Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 02-06-2015
Right looking at hybriding the lump at long last. Basically want a bigger turbo but cant afford to go new exhaust, clutch (cg paddle so wont hold torque), boost pipes. Also cant be arsed with maf and heat issues from a gearbox mount which was my original plan.
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Basicaly what is the best turbo to hybrid out of the ko3 and gt15 and whats the best gains i will see out of it? Hoping to make double stock power at least
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Jonny81191 - 02-06-2015
Don't bother imho, you'll spend less fitting a bigger turbo. And what do you mean a cg won't hold torque? I'm a bit lost there..
RE: Lets talk hybrids - mr_fish - 02-06-2015
you'll need some hybrid if you want double stock power.
as jonny said really.
the newer blowers are now mostly VNT so that's the way its going really.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - pugbug - 02-06-2015
I've got a GT17/22 hybrid with a 360 degree thrust bearing, cheapest avail with highest gain, spools up around 1500 rpm. Very happy with it.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Poodle - 02-06-2015
Hybridising the standard turbo doesn't solve the main problem on these, which is back-pressure. I'd be very surprised if you could gain more than 20bhp over the stock blower, and even then you'd be putting the head under more stress than it'd see with a stage 2.
If you're set on this plan regardless, then i'm pretty sure the iveco k03s is supposed to be the best option available.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 02-06-2015
(02-06-2015, 03:08 PM)Poodle Wrote: Hybridising the standard turbo doesn't solve the main problem on these, which is back-pressure. I'd be very surprised if you could gain more than 20bhp over the stock blower, and even then you'd be putting the head under more stress than it'd see with a stage 2.Im already stage 2 buddy. Problem lies mostly in the exhaust. Could do with it using the original system so i can bolt a cat back in for mot's... but thats never gonna happen. Only way i go bigger non-stock turbo is if i gearbox mpunt and thats gonna cost me a bomb as i cant weld, and on the other hand my cars been poverty spec up untill now and want to keep it that way.
If you're set on this plan regardless, then i'm pretty sure the iveco k03s is supposed to be the best option available.
And as for the cg clutches, read there not to great for holding stage 3 power. Its been squaking on launch last few thosand mile. Dunno if its the clutch dieing or the cerametallic pads just biting down fiercly
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Poodle - 02-06-2015
I think you've missed the point. What i'm saying is that stage 2 on an hdi puts a lot of stress on the head due to increased heat and back-pressure, to a large extent this resticts the power. Fitting a hybrid turbo doesn't help with this issue, instead it compounds it further and rather than getting a good gain from it, like many of the vag fanboys see, you will only see an increase of a few horsepower. Not only that you will be putting the head under even more stress. Tbh now knowing you're still running a stock diameter exhaust i'd emphasise that even more, the way you're going is just a recipe for killing a head every 10k.
What makes you say you can't get a bigger turbo than stock without going gearbox-mounted?
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 02-06-2015
(02-06-2015, 04:25 PM)Poodle Wrote: I think you've missed the point. What i'm saying is that stage 2 on an hdi puts a lot of stress on the head due to increased heat and back-pressure, to a large extent this resticts the power. Fitting a hybrid turbo doesn't help with this issue, instead it compounds it further and rather than getting a good gain from it, like many of the vag fanboys see, you will only see an increase of a few horsepower. Not only that you will be putting the head under even more stress. Tbh now knowing you're still running a stock diameter exhaust i'd emphasise that even more, the way you're going is just a recipe for killing a head every 10k.Been on my setup the last 25k thrashed every day. Yeah can see your point on the exhaust diameter. Flows gonna be crap and will deffo raise egt's. as for the head id be surprised. 210k motor still living 100% fine.
What makes you say you can't get a bigger turbo than stock without going gearbox-mounted?
The gearbox mount is a personal preference. 1 i want the room to be able to play with the turbo, 2 makes play, adjusting etc much easier.
Its just a huge funds issue. The spec ive made so far has been pretty hench considering my budget
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Jonny81191 - 02-06-2015
I strongly recommend doing some research first, as for the head, I'd be surprised if it held together but i guess 210k must make it stronger? Maybe that's where people are going wrong
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 02-06-2015
Done more than enough research, know what to go for if i do go for a bigger turbo. Hybrid just seems a cheaper option for more po wer.
No where did i say 210k makes it a stronger head... but look at the abuse its recieved so far. Think its still got more than abit left then when it goes time for a low mileage refresh
RE: Lets talk hybrids - pugbug - 02-06-2015
Have you considered getting the head ported and gas flowed? Might be a better use of funds. What's the goal for power and torque figures?
RE: Lets talk hybrids - tigerstyle - 02-06-2015
Your own posts state that you can't afford an exhaust (fair enough) and also that the problem lies in your exhaust.
So you know what the problem is? Either go find a cheap welder and make one, or get some mates that have one, piece together some scrapyard pipe bit by bit till it is 306 friendly. All the guys making power on turbo swaps will have already changed the exhaust out.
I've passed two MOTs with no cat on a W reg. Hopefully many more!
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Poodle - 03-06-2015
I'd argue you've not done enough research if you'd be surprised by the head going, it's a pretty common occurrence lol. Speaking of research, have you tried the links at the bottom of the page? Some good info in a couple of those if memory serves.
I guess you're planning on building the hybrid yourself since you're saying it's the cheaper option? You'll need a dremel or similar porting tool to ream out the hotside, have to be very careful to match the profile of the bigger unit's turbine wheel, else it'll end up inefficient enough that it's not worth doing. I'd recommend getting an egt gauge in your manifold too, at least then you can see when the temps get too high and lift off, should help avoid any inconvenient catastrophes.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Piggy - 03-06-2015
Bodging a hybrid won't do you well.
Just buy a decent modern vnt, cheaper and easier with better gains!
Theres a LOT of modern vnts which with some plates and fiddling will fit down the back.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Ruan - 03-06-2015
Champagne lifestyle, lemonade budget springs to mind...
You say you've done all the research, then why are you asking!
People are giving you advice and you're not taking it...
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Dum-Dum - 03-06-2015
Mate the exhaust is a restriction yes but nowhere near as much of a restriction as a standard turbocharger.
You could bolt on a bigger turbo in the standard position for less than a hybrid turbo costs to have made. As for needing to keep the standard exhaust why not just pop a flange further on down the new down pipe and then weld that new flange to the cat so it's still removable. Just use 2.5" v band clamps for cheapness and complete interchangeability.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 01:41 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Mate the exhaust is a restriction yes but nowhere near as much of a restriction as a standard turbocharger.Most sensible advice ive had so far. Been tempted by gt2052 (non vnt) so guess its just gonna be a case of ebay surf and see what i find cheap. Might get lucky and get down pipes etc off my 4x4 buddys if im lucky. Hybrid just seemed so apealing with it being the bolt in option.
You could bolt on a bigger turbo in the standard position for less than a hybrid turbo costs to have made. As for needing to keep the standard exhaust why not just pop a flange further on down the new down pipe and then weld that new flange to the cat so it's still removable. Just use 2.5" v band clamps for cheapness and complete interchangeability.
Ruan, just because i havnt jumped at the first answer given dosnt mean im not taking advice. Its brilliant when you can build a spec on pocket change. Should try it some time.
Twin pass fmic
Cg cerametallic clutch
Ram air filter
Lynx engineering crank pulley
Baker bm gearbox mount
Baker bm top mount
Powerflex lower engine mount
Whippy stage 2 map
custom modular steels (landrover welded&drilled)
Roller bearing wishbones
Bilstein b4 shocks/dampers
Gmaxx 60mm springs
Omp strut brace
Gti 6 rear torsion bar
Braided brake lines
Front drilled/grooved disks
23mm master cylinder
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Ruan - 03-06-2015
I'm being serious, if you've not noticed, I've a lot of advice to give - infact I'd go as far to say, my word count to post ratio is pretty sodding high!
A simple search would reveal there's an abundance of options for a "double stock power" turbocharger, I'm pretty sure I've done a thousand posts on this of all the different ways you can mount them up... However there's lots of other problems which you'll encounter, hybrids are a nice idea, but I've seen one too many "hybrid" end up costing £400-500 and realistically not end up performing as well as it should...
VNT is obviously the ideal way to go, but there's other options out there like the 2052S, 2056S and other BW/KKK turbos in K03 and K04 frame, all of which are cheap and if you put a little effort in, you could quite easily make it fit the stock exhaust - just a case of getting a flange and welding it in the right place - my advice would be get a spare HDi head, manifold and turbo and mock up something.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Poodle - 03-06-2015
Give over, i posted a helpful reply both times and all you did was take offence and claim you know better. Shove it up your arse you bellend.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 03-06-2015
[FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] someone just threw there rattle out of the pram
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Jonny81191 - 04-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 11:38 PM)dr_jekyll Wrote: [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] someone just threw there rattle out of the pram
Er, grow up
Tell you what, go machine your own turbo out and mash the wrong CHRA into it, have fun and don't come crying when it doesn't make any boost/blows up.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 04-06-2015
Corrrrrrr so just because i havnt listened to the first person on here youve all got bitchy [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH] and you tell me to grow up
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Niall - 04-06-2015
Calm down ladies and play nicely otherwise the thread will be locked
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Piggy - 04-06-2015
(04-06-2015, 06:48 AM)dr_jekyll Wrote: Corrrrrrr so just because i havnt listened to the first person on here youve all got bitchy [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH] and you tell me to grow up
you and I have talked about this before aswel fella, at length.
and its not just the FIRST person...
we are all giving the SAME advice but despite that fact, and despite the fact you have not done enough research, you think you know better.
I like you fella, but I can understand the frustration of others here who have taken time to read your post and reply with very useful info.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Poodle - 04-06-2015
Haha a bit harsh perhaps, i just don't have any patience for wasters. There's no point me providing any more useful input as you're clearly just trying to wind people up, that or you're stupid enough you'll only take advice from people telling you what you want to hear. Either way, i'm done.
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Ruan - 04-06-2015
You've created a post, asking for thoughts on your idea, expecting everyone to applaud you for your idea and tell you it's great, but we've advised against it... Now you've decided you don't like it and started telling us how great it is to mod on a budget as if we don't do that...
Reality is, a hybrid will cost you more money than doing it yourself, worse performance than simply installing a better unit and IME likely to be less reliable... I've had at least a modicum of experience when it comes to choosing a turbocharger, if you don't want to take my advice, that's fine, but don't just tell me how I'm wrong and I obviously just throw money at cars... At least have a decent debate with why you think it's a better option. Had you have done your research, I'm sure you'd understand all about how and why the valvetrain causes problems in these engines as soon as you up the power levels and why hybridising is not the best way.
If you want to go ahead, great, I'm sure you'll tell us how we're all wrong in the future
You say:
Quote:Done more than enough research, know what to go for if i do go for a bigger turbo. Hybrid just seems a cheaper option for more po wer.
So why do you ask:
Quote:Basicaly what is the best turbo to hybrid out of the ko3 and gt15 and whats the best gains i will see out of it? Hoping to make double stock power at least
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Connor - 06-06-2015
So how much did the estate make on the dyno?
RE: Lets talk hybrids - silverzx - 06-06-2015
130 with MAF 146 without if I remember rightly?
RE: Lets talk hybrids - Piggy - 07-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 10:12 PM)silverzx Wrote: 130 with MAF 146 without if I remember rightly?
oh dear!
Lets talk hybrids - dr_jekyll - 07-06-2015
Yeah 133bhp 250lbft with maf in, 146bhp 298lbft with maf unplugged. Verdict was maf was proper dead again. Air filter is just chewing them out so need to look for a better filter.
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