DPF Issues... (Update page 4, March)

DPF Issues... (Update page 4, March) - Printable Version

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DPF Issues... (Update page 4, March) - Toms306 - 20-10-2014

2nd...lol.

Anyway, as the title suggests, I'm having what I think are DPF issues, and can't seem to work out what the problem is. Focus forum hasn't been a huge amount of help either, so I've got nothing to lose by asking here. Tongue

Basically, it seems to be regenerating (or trying to) far too often. And is causing the silent fault code as seen below -

The signs of it regenerating are poor mpg and the fans running during the event and after switching off the engine, despite the coolant staying at a constant 78c. The stat should open at 88c, but 78c is what the temp sensor is measuring via the OBD port. Also, the engine feels a bit 'lethargic' when this happening. It's not bad, most people probably wouldn't even notice, just not as sharp as normal.

I decided to take some live diags using Forscan, the important one is the blue one, DPF pressure differential, which peaks at 9kPa...is that good or bad? No-one seemed to know...

I then did the forced regen 10 days ago, video is on the other thread. Then did the above test again...and the pressure peaked at 9kPa again! Confused

Still no idea if that's good or bad.

Anyway, following that, the car felt much better for several days, with just a brief regen when it got to 47,700 miles, which is normal as it should do around every 500 miles, this was finished before I even got home. No fans running after switch off. No noticeably poor mpg. No lethargic running.

On Friday I filled up with fuel. For those that don't know, the Eolys is dosed when the fuel flap is closed after a fill up. I also reset all 'user' values on the dash, to see what mpg I average over this tank.

And instantly the car felt worse, the lethargy was back... Despite a hot engine and fairly 'easy' 12 mile B road drive home, I only got 51mpg! Admittedly with a couple of overtakes, but still shouldn't be that bad starting with a warm engine! Got home and yep, the fans are running on, though the coolant is still at 78c.

Then today, mpg climbed while the engine was cold, even at 70 was climbing and peaked at 59mpg...when it suddenly started dropping off, regen started I assume. Got progressively worse, down to 53mpg, fans on when I parked again. On the way home stopped at supermarket, fans on again, mpg still poor. Left the supermarket and mpg started to climb again, after the B road (where I only got 51mpg on a warm engine Friday) had reached 57mpg average...yet the fans were still on when I parked up.

If you've got through that, well done lol. I'm actually really interested in this sort of tech, don't know why lol, but I'd much rather learn about it, understand it and understand where the fault lies rather than just smashing the DPF out and using 'old' methods lol. So if anyone has any ideas what could be the problem, where to check, or even if that differential pressure is good or bad I'd be be interested to hear it!

Cheers
Tom

RE: DPF Issues... - bashbarnard - 20-10-2014

These engines do have a horrible tendency of blocking dpfs mate. When I used to work for pug we got loads of force re-gens in. Biggest issue was pug didnt want to look into it. So long as it went out running that was good enough for them.

From personal experience since leaving the dealer and actually doing proper work. Every dpf that ive had that fault with are partially blocked. The sensors either side see a pressure diffrence and keep trying to burn it out, this never works and we end up sticking a new dpf on.

As much as this tech is sort of good. Its as long as iy is short. Clean emmisions for when.the car needs to be tested. Then blow it all out in one hit. I would get someone to write it out. (along with egr) it will save you in the long run and gain mpg.

Ive also known people having success knocking them through. That way computer just always sees it as free.

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 20-10-2014

I don't doubt that it's partly blocked, but that's the whole point of them anyway lol. As long as theres still sufficient air flow it shouldn't be trying to regen, and Forscan reckons I've got another 30k miles before the DPF is blocked with ash. Any idea what the actual pressure difference trigger is? 9kPa seems like sod all, it's only 1.5psi lol.

I don't agree with it all being blown out at once, even during a regen the particulates aren't much if anything, but that does obviously mean it'll slowly fill with the ash that it can't blow out.

JP would do me a map with the DPF and EGR off but I'd rather stick with them for now. Especially with some of the potential new MOT checks that are floating about on the internet, I've read of future MOT's having to force regens or do a software check for the DPF... Now while I'm sceptical they will actually go ahead, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot now and find in 2 years that I'm buggered lol.

RE: DPF Issues... - bashbarnard - 20-10-2014

Get friendly with your mot tester Wink

Also I dont know what the preasure diffrwnce is meant to be but I reckon I can find out tomorrow for you Smile

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 20-10-2014

Hopefully I wont still be here in 2 years lol, may not be any friendly testers where I move lol. Confused

If you could find out that'd be great. Smile

If the DPF is blocked, I could always try jetwashing it out. Wink

RE: DPF Issues... - lolsteve - 20-10-2014

Don't know much about these DPFs but could you not do something like running the engine hot like redlining it to blow the ash through or whatever? Italian tune up? lol

RE: DPF Issues... - bashbarnard - 20-10-2014

Steam cleaning works but the opposite way to exhaust flow. So pull dpf off and go nuts

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 21-10-2014

(20-10-2014, 08:57 PM)lolsteve Wrote: Don't know much about these DPFs but could you not do something like running the engine hot like redlining it to blow the ash through or whatever? Italian tune up?

Redline a diesel!? Confused

Still not hot enough really, forced static regen gets DPF temps up to about 550c! It looks just like 4k for 5 minutes but there are other methods it uses to heat up the exhaust at the same time.

Don't confuse soot and ash though. During the regen soot gets burnt, but as with burning anything, it leaves like 1% as ash...this ash is still too big to fit through the DPF so will be held there indefinitely... Until it completely blocks and you end up in limp mode (no DPF light like there is on VAGs, well done Ford!) or 75k miles where Ford say you have to have a new DPF fitted anyway lol.

(20-10-2014, 09:16 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: Steam cleaning works but the opposite way to exhaust flow. So pull dpf off and go nuts

I've seen jetwashing them on youtube, is there enough force in a steam cleaner to do it? Not that I have a steam cleaner anyway lol.

RE: DPF Issues... - bashbarnard - 21-10-2014

Take it to asda mate. And yes ive seen people do it and work.

RE: DPF Issues... - ConorTRG - 21-10-2014

Check the pipes that run from before and after the dpf to the pressure sensor, mame sure there not blocked.

That fault code can also relate to the pressure sensor side of things, also is there any faults in the addivtive ecu?

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 21-10-2014

I checked the pipes weren't split or anything, but not sure how to check they're not blocked without removing them? I thought about taking them off the sensor and running the engine, should feel air through them, but that may put into limp mode so I didn't want to try it lol. Also not sure how to check the sensor itself, as that could potentially be faulty...

There haven't been any additive ECU faults (the regen duration fault has been there since I got it, comes back soon after clearing). Only one CAN signal error picked up on the additive module yesterday, but they're always popping up for different modules lol so I think they're more 'blips' than a proper fault.

RE: DPF Issues... - Ruan - 21-10-2014

Until you know precisely what that fault code means, you aren't going to know what it's referring to... This "Signal high" could be high temperature, high pressure, high eolys additive, high fuel pressure during regen, high anything...

Need to get access to the exact Ford documentation or the Ford diagnostics that would be used to pickup what that fault code is... You're guessing otherwise!

And just making sure, this is defo an Eolys regenerated one? I'll admit that I thought these were the "afterburner" style with the diesel injector in the manifold... EDIT: Or is that only the 2.0s?

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 21-10-2014

True, but there don't appear to be any cheap copies of ETIS like there are VAGCOM and PP so this the best I can do lol. It doesn't bring up any other similar faults either.

Pretty sure its Eolys until mid 2009 where they changed for a 'lifetime' coated DPF. I've also got the magnet on the filler cap which is what the Additive module uses for dosing afaik. Unfortunately the Eolys tank is black (if I'm looking at the right thing!) so can't see the level.

Not sure what the 2.0s use, didn't look into it tbh.

RE: DPF Issues... - Connor - 21-10-2014

Nothing to see here whistle

Lol wrong bit, but I have found something that may be a bit more help

RE: DPF Issues... - welshpug - 21-10-2014

errr, wut?!

none of that tat on a diesel lol

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 21-10-2014

I clearly missed something in here... lol

RE: DPF Issues... - Connor - 21-10-2014

Yes a fail, but shhhhh ninja

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 21-10-2014

Oops, wouldn't worry about it, I make fails constantly. lol

RE: DPF Issues... - mossy1985 - 23-10-2014

To check the state of your DPF you really just need to be doing a physical back pressure check using a manometer. You can just remove your lambda before the filter and check what pressure you have. On tick over you should have almost no pressure at all, then as you approach WOT you should see no more than 3 bar max, any more than that and your filter is blocked. I bloke I worked with had an Audi with this problem and he poured neat adblue into the DPF then went on road test lol he said it was smoking like a twat and was DOP but then there was an almighty bang and the engine came alive. If you can't check the back pressure at the lambda you can check the pressure at the differential pressure sensor, but for that you will need a gauge that shows positive and negative pressures

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 23-10-2014

I don't have a lambda afaik? Just a temp sensor and 2 pressure sensors. I also don't have any pressure reading equipment lol.

RE: DPF Issues... - mossy1985 - 23-10-2014

Tom I'm sorry to thread crap but I am unable to pm or post in for sale yet but I'm after an auto door switch and possibly loom for my ph3 6, could you email me on dave.moss85@btinternet.com so we can organise it cheers

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 23-10-2014

Yep, but you could've atleast bumped up the for sale thread with that comment lol. Tongue

DPF Issues... - rocker8742 - 23-10-2014

(23-10-2014, 04:50 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Yep, but you could've atleast bumped up the for sale thread with that comment lol.

But he can't because its in the for sale section Tongue

RE: DPF Issues... - mossy1985 - 24-10-2014

(23-10-2014, 09:32 PM)rocker8742 Wrote:
(23-10-2014, 04:50 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Yep, but you could've atleast bumped up the for sale thread with that comment lol.

But he can't because its in the for sale section

Exactly lol, I'm on board with the 100 post bit for the selling side of things as any Tom dick or Harry could post a pic up of a part that they copied and pasted. But not being allowed to buy from the for sale section I think is a bit steep?

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 24-10-2014

(23-10-2014, 09:32 PM)rocker8742 Wrote:
(23-10-2014, 04:50 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Yep, but you could've atleast bumped up the for sale thread with that comment lol.

But he can't because its in the for sale section

Fail.

RE: DPF Issues... - mossy1985 - 29-10-2014

Toms306 datelrecieved quote46' Wrote: Yep, but you could've atleast bumped up the for sale thread with that comment lol.

Hi Tom just wanted to let you no i recieved the parts today and my one touch drivers window now works Smile

thanks alot

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 29-10-2014

Nice one, thanks for letting me know. Smile

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 01-11-2014

Back on topic, did anyone find out what the pressure should be across the DPF?

It didn't feel good last night, and only averaging around 55mpg so far on this tank so think I'll have to try forcing another regen this week tbh. That's obviously not a permanent fix though.

I didn't think my driving would cause an issue for the DPF either, at least 15 miles each way weekdays, with longer ~50 mile trips once or twice a week. Obviously the DPF could have been filled by the previous owner and just a coincidence, but just wondered if you guys my mileage was too low for a car with a DPF?

RE: DPF Issues... - Piggy - 01-11-2014

Removing the dpf and getting it mapped out has to be an option surely?? At least so you can find something new to moan about? Tongue

*sulks off to cry over cracked precups*

RE: DPF Issues... - Toms306 - 01-11-2014

The price of doing so is considerably more than just replacing the DPF lol, as I had been thinking about it.

Also thought about replacing it with a coated DPF from the newer ones (they changed from Eolys to coated a year after mine). But then I don't know what to do with the additive module and whether the regen software would be any different.

It's a bit annoying really, as I actually like the Focus, just regret my choice of engine atm lol.