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+-- Forum: Engines (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: DW10 HDi section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: 406 hdi (/showthread.php?tid=26951)
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406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 02-10-2014
Ive got a 306 hdi at stage 1+ and i love it but i need a bigger car so im thinking a 406 hdi as the 306 had been so good to me so what im asking is should i go for the 90 and go stage 1+ for ease or get the 110 and push it a little more?
Also ive heard the 110 has a dmf is this true and if so are they prone to breaking as i know its a problem with other cars
406 hdi - Razorback_Rob - 02-10-2014
(02-10-2014, 08:59 AM)tuttyboy84 Wrote: Ive got a 306 hdi at stage 1+ and i love it but i need a bigger car so im thinking a 406 hdi as the 306 had been so good to me so what im asking is should i go for the 90 and go stage 1+ for ease or get the 110 and push it a little more?
Also ive heard the 110 has a dmf is this true and if so are they prone to breaking as i know its a problem with other cars
As far as I know mate all the 8v dw10 engines didn't have dmf only the 16v and 2.2. So try getting a 2.0 8v 110 if you want to avoid the dreaded dmf. Some came with dpf and needs removing idealg for the remap. Pro Steve remap will see 140 out of the 110 engine as it's the same engine as the 306 just with an intercooler although they're quite small and you may benefit from putting a larger intercooler on when going past stage 1
I personally love the 406's. Love the rapier spec!
RE: 406 hdi - Uberderv - 02-10-2014
I've gone from a 306 to a 406 2.1td and it's alot better for my 80mile daily round trip to work. Plenty of space in the bugger, and decent gadgets on them
RE: 406 hdi - THE_Liam - 02-10-2014
As I understand it, the 90 is identical to a 306 HDI, the 110 has an intercooler and a DMF, and the 136 is a 2.2 16v with DMF and DPF. I'm thinking about getting a 406 and if I do it'll be a 90 with a stage 1 map, simpler, more reliable and much cheaper than the 110 or 136.
RE: 406 hdi - sherman306 - 02-10-2014
Not all 110 hdis had a dmf but alot did so just check for clutch rattle judder I've had a 110 and 90 406 probably the most comfortable car I've owned
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 02-10-2014
Ok so sounds like its best to get a 90 and remap to 1+ wouldnt mind knowing how far a 110 can be taken on the standard intercooler tho
RE: 406 hdi - Toms306 - 02-10-2014
Gotta be careful with the ECU on the 406 though, some use Siemens which are a pain to remap. Can't remember if its the 90s or 110s though!
DMFs really aren't a huge issue. If it's knocking and the clutch pedal pulses on a test drive don't buy it. If it feels fine, it'll most probably go on for a while.
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 03-10-2014
So if the clutch feels sweet go for the 110?? As long as its a bosch ecu??
RE: 406 hdi - THE_Liam - 03-10-2014
(03-10-2014, 06:54 AM)tuttyboy84 Wrote: So if the clutch feels sweet go for the 110?? As long as its a bosch ecu??
Pretty sure all 110s were Bosch ECUs...
RE: 406 hdi - welshpug - 03-10-2014
Just get a 110, 90 is dog slow, NOT light cars.
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 03-10-2014
Yes but a 90 with a remap can take it too 135 so only 5 bhp off the 110 mapped but without the dmf
RE: 406 hdi - THE_Liam - 03-10-2014
(03-10-2014, 09:03 AM)tuttyboy84 Wrote: Yes but a 90 with a remap can take it too 135 so only 5 bhp off the 110 mapped but without the dmf
That's what I'm thinking, plus there are a lot more 90s around and they are cheaper by a fair margin, and a map is free if you can get someone to send you a copy and flash it yourself...
RE: 406 hdi - welshpug - 03-10-2014
The 110 comes with all the stuff you'd need to fit to a 90 already.
nothing wrong with dmf, stronger clutches too, why do you think anything but a 90 has one!
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 03-10-2014
I thought dmf was to reduce vibration and many people with cars with them buy smf conversions because they are weaker than a solid one???
Ive also got a stage 1 stage 1+ and a stage 2 map for my 306 so could i use these maps or will i need to buy new ones?? They are so cheap anyway im not too fussed if i do have to
Re: RE: 406 hdi - THE_Liam - 03-10-2014
(03-10-2014, 11:05 AM)welshpug Wrote: The 110 comes with all the stuff you'd need to fit to a 90 already.You don't need to fit anything to a 90 to stage 1 map it
nothing wrong with dmf, stronger clutches too, why do you think anything but a 90 has one!
RE: 406 hdi - welshpug - 03-10-2014
yes you do, 90's don't have intercoolers, therefore its a bit daft to map them.
(03-10-2014, 12:18 PM)tuttyboy84 Wrote: I thought dmf was to reduce vibration and many people with cars with them buy smf conversions because they are weaker than a solid one???
Ive also got a stage 1 stage 1+ and a stage 2 map for my 306 so could i use these maps or will i need to buy new ones?? They are so cheap anyway im not too fussed if i do have to
they aren't "weaker" they have moving parts which inevitably wear, they also have bigger clutches, and bigger gearbox driveshafts etc.
funnily enough there isnt a 90 hdi on servicebox
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 03-10-2014
Nothing wrong with remapping a 90 to 130 they love it mines been done for around 15k and never missed a beat
RE: 406 hdi - powerandtorque - 03-10-2014
I agree with Welshpug here - I can't understand why you'd choose a 90 over a 110 all else being equal.
110 has proper boost control, it has a stronger gearbox/clutch, it has an intercooler and pipework as standard.
Yes you can remap a 90 to 120-130hp, but by the same token, you can remap a 110 to 140-150hp just as easily.
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 03-10-2014
But thats what im asking are the 110s as robust as the 90 because if so ill get one for the reasons you have just said
Re: RE: 406 hdi - THE_Liam - 03-10-2014
(03-10-2014, 01:12 PM)welshpug Wrote: yes you do, 90's don't have intercoolers, therefore its a bit daft to map them.
Why is it? Ask around, you don't need an intercooler with a stage 1 map? Plenty of stage 1 306 HDIs on 125-130bhp stage 1 maps with no intercooler
RE: 406 hdi - madmadmax - 03-10-2014
there is no diffrenc bewean the 110 and the 90 apart from whats conected to it so thay are as reliabul as ecah other
RE: 406 hdi - jammapic - 06-10-2014
These map all day long to clutch shredding power, 160hp and 280lbft with ease. Most I've ever done was 175hp and 301lbft.
For something which won't rip the clutches to bits, you can easily see 155hp and 250lbft.
They are really good to map as well to be honest, not like this horrible VAG rubbish I seem to have had in of late!!
JP
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 06-10-2014
Would you see the same figures with a 307 hdi 110 then as I'm sure they are the same engine?
RE: 406 hdi - jammapic - 06-10-2014
Yes. They are identical. Just done one today at TDi Custom Remaps HQ in fact.
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 06-10-2014
Someone on here said the 110 has a stronger clutch and drive shafts is this true
RE: 406 hdi - jammapic - 06-10-2014
They certainly seem to hold more power when tuned, in my experience anyway!!
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 06-10-2014
OK also do you rate the 2.2 hdi sorry for all the questions
RE: 406 hdi - jammapic - 06-10-2014
Yeah, they are really strong engines!!
RE: 406 hdi - tuttyboy84 - 06-10-2014
What can you take them too with a map?
RE: 406 hdi - jammapic - 06-10-2014
Around 180hp depending on the condition of the engine. Again, I've gone further but they get smokey and you begin to start pushing all their components to the limit.
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