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+--- Thread: trouble after bosch pump upgrade (/showthread.php?tid=26134)
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trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 23-08-2014
Hi all I've just swapped a gov modded lda ground Bosch onto my engine instead of my Lucas set up. I'm having some trouble getting it set up right, I don't know what it was running before but I've got her to a sensible idle speed but it miss fires and is so lumpy on tickover kicking out white smoke stinking of diesel. When you drive it steady with the revs up higher it's trouble free and under full load when it clears it runs fine.
As soon as I stop or let the revs drop it is real lumpy and Smokey again. the pump has been rotated to be more advanced on the static advance and it was much better than it first was. Can't find any air leaks or fuel leaks at all.
What could I try messing with to get her to idle right without missing, any ideas?
Many thanks
Chris
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Curt - 23-08-2014
Sounds like the pump timing is a tooth out.
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - bashbarnard - 23-08-2014
Have you swapped the pump bolts from.the lucas to.bosch position? That would cause massive riming out if you havnt
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 23-08-2014
Yes I double nutted them and moved them to the Bosch position
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Tom - 23-08-2014
So is the pump sat fully advanced now on the slots? If so then it sounds like you timed it up wrong.
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 23-08-2014
The timing was Bob on i can't see why it won't idle properly and smoke loads. one thing to note is that the boost comp housing is on backwards so the outlet is facing towards the cam rather than the near side of the car
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Paul_13 - 23-08-2014
I'd put both bolts in the diesel pump sprocket and check the timing again compared to the crank /cam.
My boost compensator housing is on backwards. Won't make a slightest bit of difference
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 23-08-2014
Ok I'll try again in the morning. it all lines up exactly before and did a few rotations and it lined up again.
In other news my old Lucas wasn't bust it was as I thought. when the aux belt tore itself to pieces a bit must have gotten into the cam belt and made it run a tooth out and that's why it started clattering and fueling wrong.
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Danny2009 - 23-08-2014
Does sound like timing mate make sure both bolts screw all the way In flush to the bracket make sure the bolts not cock eyed
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 24-08-2014
Just 're done the belt, it did look as if it was slightly out so adjusted it by one tooth and all the pins went in dead straight multiple times. gone to fire her and it's still the same, miss firing and smoking really bad and stinking of diesel fumes. Really don't know what it could be.
Any ideas?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Seb_Ryan - 24-08-2014
Have you advanced/retarded the timing on the pump?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 24-08-2014
Yes had to advance it but barely made a difference. After the swap I bled the air out of all the lines until fuel came out but now I've just found that the injector closest to the cam belt side is now not getting any fuel. all the lines are on correct and the leak off sends fuel back out but the injector doesn't fire. I noticed that said injector had a wire snipped off the top so I've tried an old Lucas I injector in place in case the Bosch one was at fault but that doest jet any fuel either
Scratch that it's getting fuel now
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - vincent1 - 24-08-2014
can you undo the injector line at the pump end to see if any fuel comes out of the valve delivery head if so maybe a injector pipe blocked or a valve issue i guess
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 24-08-2014
I've narrowed it down to air getting into the fuel lines on the inlet hose so gonna replace as the Lucas inlet/outlet and Bosch ones are the other way round to each other so can't use my standard lines.
One other thing, my throttle cable on the 205 was long enouh to use with my Lucas pump after the conversion but with the Bosch it's too short and the throttle arm has to be pulled open a bit to get the cable in. Do people but a 306 cable when putting a Bosch on an xud in a 205?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 30-08-2014
Still can't get the car going properly. Replaced all the leak off lines and replaced the feed from the fuel filter to the pump to an 8mm line. Still runs super lumpy and Smokey, if you prime it up real hard it runs fine and normal for a few seconds then starts struggling to tick over again. I can still hear a high pitch squeel when priming it up as if pressure is escaping but not diesel leaking anywhere. I can't pin point where this is coming from at all. This happened before and after all the lines were changed for new ones so doubt it's that.
I did think it could be the metal injector lines but nothing would go through them with the ignition off.
Any thoughts? I'm really stuck and need it running
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - vincent1 - 30-08-2014
are the banjo bolts fuel in and fuel out diffrent lenghs have you put these in right? i remember reading something simalar a while ago.
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Piggy - 30-08-2014
Fuel filter? Kinked a fuel line?
You sure its a good pump?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 30-08-2014
Fuel filter is normal from my Lucas set up and no kinks in the lines. Fuel banjos are how they came on the pump only checked they were tight not messed with anything. pump came from Danny and came off a working car. I'm really stuck :z
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Piggy - 30-08-2014
Defo no change when you advanced it?
How far advanced is it?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Chris_90 - 30-08-2014
If you've got a high pitched squeal when priming definitely sounds like air escapeing, from some were, get a length of 8mm fuel pipe drop it in jerry can and connect it to fuel in banjo see if it runs Ok, if it does I'd look at replacing fuel pipes
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 30-08-2014
No change at all. Quite far advanced now. If I prime it up loads it runs ok for a few seconds then it starts coughing and missing and just kicking out smoke. When it is primed the engine runs normal and burns clean on tickover.
That's an idea to try cheers Chris, I can't for the life of me figure out where the sound is coming from and I thought my ears were good lol. thing is just today I've replaced the fuel pipe from the filter to the in banjo and the leak offs. only place where it could be air is the like to the filter from the grenade but surely I would notice it leaking fuel
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Chris_90 - 30-08-2014
(30-08-2014, 06:52 PM)randomcaller Wrote: No change at all. Quite far advanced now. If I prime it up loads it runs ok for a few seconds then it starts coughing and missing and just kicking out smoke. When it is primed the engine runs normal and burns clean on tickover.
That's an idea to try cheers Chris, I can't for the life of me figure out where the sound is coming from and I thought my ears were good lol. thing is just today I've replaced the fuel pipe from the filter to the in banjo and the leak offs. only place where it could be air is the like to the filter from the grenade but surely I would notice it leaking fuel
Not necessarily, my hand primer was letting air in but wasn't leaking fuel, try the pipe trick if that works sack off standard fuel filter get a new hand primer and put a tt filter in and go from there, just incase it's the fuel filter housing letting air in.
Bare in mind when u try the pipe in jerry Can it might take some cranking to start as you won't have primed it.
What's your location? Might be some one near by that can help?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - pioneer DJ paddy - 30-08-2014
I no u said that the pump came off a car that was running but how long was the car lying up for if u have tryed all that it sounds like the pump has had better days . I have put 6 pumps on my car nw in the last 10 weeks so I no hw u feel they were all doing wat ur pump is doin nw finally got one that runs sweet nw these pumps dont like to sit around to long it nt good for them are so I was told lol any ways hope u get it sorted man ........paddy.........
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Paul_13 - 30-08-2014
Sounds like the vane pump isn't working and drawing fuel in
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Danny2009 - 30-08-2014
Pump came from me ran fine on car, was off car 3 days before it was posted
You removed that junction box?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Paul_13 - 30-08-2014
Ah fair enough. I take that comment back
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 30-08-2014
Yeah box is off. fitted brand new 8mm internal diameter line and new leak offs today. only bit I haven't replaced is bit from grenade to the fuel filter housing which was absolutely fine before but I'll replace that and if no difference I'll try the old Jerry can trick. I'll let you know how I get on soon, off to the moto gp tomorrow so won't get chance to fiddle.
Yeah the pump wasn't stood for any time and was stored with diesel so it's fine on that front.
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - Danny2009 - 30-08-2014
I'd bypass the fuel filter housing mate there common for leaking air
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - vincent1 - 31-08-2014
this quote is of another car site
You may not have an air leak at all. The low pressure circuit in the Bosch VE pump is set by a relief valve inside the pump, and if you "overprime" the CAV hand grenade primer, the relief valve buzzes on its seat, sounding exactly like an air leak. This is normal, and of course, you have no fuel leaks.
maybe darren can comfirm this?
RE: trouble after bosch pump upgrade - randomcaller - 28-09-2014
Still no joy with this, not had chance to work on it in ages. I've now just got a bottle of diesel running the fuel in direct to the banjo and same with the return straight back to the bottle. She still won't idle properly just coughs and chucks out white smoke until it dies. No leaks from around the pump that I can see. Really getting to me now I just wanted a nice Bosch to be better and maybe run some veg and she won't even idle :z