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+--- Thread: 306 2.0 hdi 16v (/showthread.php?tid=25283)
306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
Hi i am new here in the forum, but got my 306 a few years now.
My current setup is a standard 2.0 hdi 8v engine, with GT1852v controlled by ecu, renault Laguna FMIC and an oil cooler.
Now i bought a 2.2 dw12 bosch engine and i my built a new engine. My idea is to put the 2.2 16v head on top of the dw10 block and use the r70 pump from the dw12 and injectors.
i current have all material to start mountting the engine
- dw10 block
-2.2 16v head, injectors and pump
- RHR 2.0 hdi 16v pistons and rods
I only doubt is the injection angle of the 2.2 injectors would be a macth for the rhr pistons, as they use siemens injectors.
Any tips and tricks are welcome
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - darrenjlobb - 16-07-2014
Injection angle will be fine, albeit those nozzles are fairly small, but will still make good power if you dont want to go to mad.
Should all bolt together fairly easily, have a look in my project thread if you want as I used to have a 2.0 16v HDI motor in my car...I acaully used the 16v block, but if i did it again, id build it all into a 8v block, as it would have made life alot easier in the long run!
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - welshpug - 16-07-2014
you would be better off starting with a DW10ATED4 or fitting the complete DW12 surely?
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - darrenjlobb - 16-07-2014
No if it was me, id run the stock block, 16v pistons and either bosch managed head (there the same head 2.0/2.2)...I had no end of farce with things not fitting because i was using the more modern block....engine mounts, water distro, belt covers, alternator brackets, you name it, the bolt holes didnt line up...
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
very nice to ear that, my main problem was the nozzle angle, because the RHR uses siemens injection system and i have no clue of what nozzle angle they are.
i am current at 1650 bar rail and 80 mm^3 of diesel runing 1.3 bar turbo and no smoke, and car runs good.
But since i got a complete dw12 engine for a bargain my gess was to use the dw10 block, this way i can use the gearbox and mounts original, so no problem there.
I wiil post some photos here of the work i am doing
And yes Mr Darren i have read your post from start to finish.
Beacuse i live in the end of the world (Azores) i have many trouble fidding parts, my dw12 engine came from the Uk and arrived last week, so i have a lot of work to do
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - Ruan - 16-07-2014
Take a look at the Bosch managed DW10ATED4 (110hp) often came in the 807 and Eurovans. Engine codes RHM, RHT and RHW. easily distinguishable by the all alloy inlet manifold.
As you've found the RHR is the Siemens managed engine - the head for the Siemens is a different casting than the Bosch, but the 2.0 and the 2.2 Bosch engines are the same casting. However I have seen someone convert a Siemens cylinder head to work with the cambelt driven CR pump.
If you can get a set of pistons, connecting rods and injectors from the 110hp Bosch 2.0 16v, that's going to be precisely the correct setup as was used from factory.
If not the DW12 Injectors I'm 100% sure will not cause any problems
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
Mr Ruan i already have the pump, injectors, and 16v head from the 2.2 and the rhr/rhk pistons, so the parts are already here, the doubt was on the injection angle of the 2.2 on the rhk pistons
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - Piggy - 16-07-2014
Im very curious about this...
very good selection of bits to build potentially a brilliant engine.
Get a project thread going...I wana follow this!
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
Here are some photos, i still need to glide the head and to the valve work
![[Image: DSC00018.jpg]](http://s16.postimg.org/p06gwnn91/DSC00018.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00019.jpg]](http://s11.postimg.org/hl3cytrz7/DSC00019.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00020.jpg]](http://s22.postimg.org/jw1p0daz5/DSC00020.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00021.jpg]](http://s29.postimg.org/q2xa3ndh3/DSC00021.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00022.jpg]](http://s7.postimg.org/ihe1llz7v/DSC00022.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00023.jpg]](http://s28.postimg.org/t5fobse0t/DSC00023.jpg)
free upload pictures
Later today i will post some more pictures
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - darrenjlobb - 16-07-2014
I like this thread
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
all work is done by me with a help of a mechanic friend, mapping is all me
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - darrenjlobb - 16-07-2014
Nice, have you any photos of previous setups / power results etc?
We have a strong diesel community on here / would love to see more of your work!
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - Niall - 16-07-2014
Interesting. Look forward to seeing progress
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
Power results nothing because here on the island there is no Power mesure machine.
i am current putting 80 mm^3 diesel stroke, 1650 bar rail with a astra CDTI rail pressure sensor (1800 Bar) and 1.3 bar turbo ( gt1852v from a 220 cdi.
Standart dw10 8v, FMIC of laguna, gt1852 and a mocal oil cooler
will take a photo or two of the car to post
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 16-07-2014
Some photos of the car
![[Image: DSC00027.jpg]](http://s14.postimg.org/3zolvgqa9/DSC00027.jpg)
image hosting over 5mb
![[Image: DSC00024.jpg]](http://s28.postimg.org/s04919kvx/DSC00024.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00025.jpg]](http://s8.postimg.org/8bweuwp85/DSC00025.jpg)
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![[Image: DSC00026.jpg]](http://s24.postimg.org/bdzjunir9/DSC00026.jpg)
photoupload
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - jammapic - 16-07-2014
Hi, interesting stuff.
Where are you giving 80mm^3 of diesel in the rev range?
80mm^3 of diesel at 1400bar gives about 140hp at around 4000rpm in my experience. Obviously, with more rail pressure it will give more, that's 17% in a perfect world with no losses taken into account... so around 160hp.
Depends though, did you extrapolate the duration tables to take into account more rail pressure, or do you just run more rail pressure blind?
For completeness, I normally run normal stage 2 cars at 1400bar (up from 1350bar stock) with a 90mm^3 request, and they easily make 150hp+.... 80mm^3 doesn't seem very much.
JP
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 17-07-2014
i am putting 80 from 2250 up to 3500 rpm, and the axis on duration tables were extend to 1700 bar.
But still i am not a expert on mapping so maybe i can put a little bit more fuel.
My goal is to put 90mm^3 with the new 16v engine and 1700 bar with the 2.2 r70 pump if it can handle that pressure
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 17-07-2014
cleaning the injectors
![[Image: DSC00028.jpg]](http://s14.postimg.org/o2iookm8x/DSC00028.jpg)
image url upload
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 18-07-2014
hello, today i take the head off the engine that willl take the 16v head and compared the block tops from 2.0 and 2.2 and noticed that the 2.2 as 2 more water galleries
2.0
![[Image: DSC00033.jpg]](http://s30.postimg.org/evcjj3vk1/DSC00033.jpg)
screen grab
2.2
![[Image: water.jpg]](http://s8.postimg.org/a7k5w1bhh/water.jpg)
image url upload
will i have any problems with this small change??
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - jammapic - 19-07-2014
(17-07-2014, 12:21 PM)dashmader Wrote: i am putting 80 from 2250 up to 3500 rpm, and the axis on duration tables were extend to 1700 bar.
But still i am not a expert on mapping so maybe i can put a little bit more fuel.
My goal is to put 90mm^3 with the new 16v engine and 1700 bar with the 2.2 r70 pump if it can handle that pressure
I would say you can put a LOT more fuel, circa 25% more in through the midrange at that pressure. If you've extrapolated the duration tables out to your working pressure (i assume you did flow through an orifice calculations to give you the time in ms for the z values?) then it should be around 80mm^3 at the injector per stroke.
I'd be aiming for about 1.5bar boost and 100mm^3 with that current setup, which should give about 185 - 190hp at about 3500/3750rpm.
JP
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 21-07-2014
hi there people, i am nedding some help here.
The RHR/RHK pistons arrived today from the UK, but i noticed that the have only 2 valvle cuts, conrod number is 783.
The valve cuts are smaller but only 2, i was expecting that would be 4 valve cuts. would this be a problem?? Will the pistons hit the valves??
Xavier
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 21-07-2014
this is the piston from 2.0 hdi 16v RHR
![[Image: DSC00053.jpg]](http://s29.postimg.org/wrgo0ojvr/DSC00053.jpg)
free uploader
![[Image: DSC00054.jpg]](http://s29.postimg.org/i0qhgi55z/DSC00054.jpg)
adult image host
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - sweeney1987 - 22-07-2014
this project looks excellent, fair play, will be watching this
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - jammapic - 22-07-2014
Hi,
As per our conversation on skype the other day, did you try that new map?
JP
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 22-07-2014
Yes sir James new map is on car
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - jammapic - 22-07-2014
And.... how does it drive compared to before?
JP
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 22-07-2014
Much better, but i will make a lógica to see if it goes like the mapping
About the piston question anybody? ??
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - jammapic - 22-07-2014
Do some logging (even if it's just by eye) on the smoke output, boost levels etc and we'll talk about where to push it next. How's the spool up now? Did you do some more work on the N75?
JP
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - dashmader - 22-07-2014
i havent done anything to n75, some tomes its a bit slow on spool when i chance gear and spikes a bit
RE: 306 2.0 hdi 16v - ozonehostile - 22-07-2014
Wow only just seen this. Will be following closely