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+--- Thread: It's head time... (/showthread.php?tid=24663)
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It's head time... - pugmanxud - 16-06-2014
Evening all. Planning to do the head gasket and get some hdi rods this weekend.
Can anyone give me a good guide to do the head gasket. I'm pretty competent/confident with the spanners just more of a "things to watch" guide than anything or things you might miss before you corwbar it/smash it with fgbh/set fire to it/ebay it/weigh it in...
the haynes guide on the XUD is poooo before anyone sggests it i already have it,
ta, will
RE: It's head time... - welshpug - 16-06-2014
I found the Haynes manual pretty much spot on tbh, nothing at all wrong with that.
RE: It's head time... - Dave - 17-06-2014
Will,
If you have the non-ac aux belt setup, you have to pull off the three allen bolts to pull the entire bracket off the block from underneith. This is a 5 min job mind, but don't try keeping the PAS pump in place because as soon as you get the sump off you realise you need to move the sump around to get it off (which the PAS pump stops you doing - as I found out
) this is just for non-ac but not sure about AC setups. when removing/replacing pistons never ever ever force them. Just light taps as if you were cracking a ping pong ball with a lump hammer or hammering a drawing pin into the wall with a sledge hammer, and remove the lip on the top of the barrel before pushing them out so you don't crack the rings if your gonna re-use.
standard stuff;
dont mix the shells from pistons
dont mix the pistons from barrels
dont mix the front/back orientation of the shells (very bad!)
ake sure the head gasket is the right way round
when removing the head dont forget the dowel on the side of the head that goes into the engine mount.
Blow out the bolt holes on the block otherwise it can crack the block if there is oil in them when you replace the bolts
Copper grease them if angle tightening them this makes them hell easy
Dont forget the dowel in the head when the head goes back on
Dont forget to do all the shitty little stuff on the head while its off if your doing a proper build like testing injectors, glowplugs, pressure testing, skim, leak offs, fireseals and injector seals - which I do none of when I do mine :p
Defo the right idea doing the rods while the head is off, made the job easy just a few extra steps.
Just make sure you have all your shit you need to complete the job and it can be done in an afternoon, just depends on how much work you want to do on the head while its off.
I did mine just replacing the head gasket and re using everything else, but really should replace;
oil & fluids & filter
Shells
bolts
rings
leak off pipes
fireseals
injector copper seals
Depends how much you wanna spend, lots have people have done this with varying levels of replacement haha
RE: It's head time... - Ruan - 17-06-2014
For the record, same applies with non-AC and AC setups - gotta take off the whole bracket, lips under the sump - bloody stupid design, that one!
PERSONALLY I'm never a fan of doing this in the car, always feel you'd have saved just as much time/effort arsing round the tight bulkhead with the engine on the piss trying to get the gasket to sit in place with only one dowel, oil dripping in your face, fighting with the sump, working upside down getting annoyed with the oil pump location... For the effort it takes to rip the entire motor out, I'd always just do it - considering that removing the engine is only another 4 or so items from what you're doing once the top left engine mount is off, if you can possibly borrow an engine stand, will make your life so much easier, you can then spin the engine round etc.
You can then do a proper clean job of it.
However - It's totally doable in the car still mind...
RE: It's head time... - cully - 17-06-2014
dont put the head gasket on upside down
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
Cheers gents! Deffo gonna do it this weekend. I'm having real troublevtrying to source an MLS gasket beig a 1.8. Really don't wanna use a fibre one if i can help it.
I've already done,
leak offs
fire seals
glowplugs
Will re use head bolts as I've measuredn and stretched hardly at all
RE: It's head time... - bashbarnard - 18-06-2014
Ring me if you have an issue bro.be happy to walk you through stuff if need be
RE: It's head time... - WiNgNuTz - 18-06-2014
(17-06-2014, 10:35 PM)cully Wrote: dont put the head gasket on upside down
Is that speaking from personal experience?
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
Will do, Tom! Cheers
And I hope I don't stick it on upside down!
I'm Reaaaaaaly struggling to fins an MLS gasket for the 1.8. ECP only have fibre. Peugeot tried to sell me the 1.9 one and Emailed a victor reinz supplier and they havent got back to me.
Will I really kill a fibre one with my big blower?
RE: It's head time... - Piggy - 18-06-2014
erm yes
and using old headbolts with a big turbo isnt going to end well mate. for the sake fo £25 do you really want the worry?!
RE: It's head time... - Tom - 18-06-2014
(18-06-2014, 07:16 PM)Piggy Wrote: erm yes
and using old headbolts with a big turbo isnt going to end well mate. for the sake fo £25 do you really want the worry?!
Its not like it would make any difference though, if its going to lift the head, brand new motor factor headbolts arent going to hold it
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
I can easily make my own head bolts. Suspect the current ones are EN8 plain carbo steel. EN16 would be more than adequate. Couple with some high tensile nuts to suit.
RE: It's head time... - Piggy - 18-06-2014
....wait....
you can MAKE high tensile head bolts????????
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
Yep. I'm a Precision engineer CNC/manual machinist by trade.
Also will an XUD9 MLS gasket do? I know there's 3mm bore difference but...
Am I best off going directly to peugeot? From a bit of googling it would appear pug only ever used MLS gaskets. I also have a used gasket on my spare engine the head is coming off to goo on mine to save skimming. Is this better than any of the other options I've asked about?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-BX-1-7-TD-PEUGEOT-205-309-405-1-8TD-ROVER-218-418-Head-Gasket-1-65mm-/380910723593?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item58b00c6209
Does this look like an MLS one
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 18-06-2014
I'll do a bit of digging to find an MLS if you want, feel free to ring me at work (ECP southampton, make sure you speak to Jonny)
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-ZX-RELAY-XSARA-HEAD-GASKET-SET-1-9TD-XUD9TE-TF-/200512185569?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eaf7524e1
Apparently this is mls?
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 18-06-2014
It is but that's an xud9 head set.
RE: It's head time... - Piggy - 18-06-2014
nope, thats part fibre.
Is there a good motorfactors that would be willing to get a xud7 and xud9 gasket out for you to compare?
I'll pm you about bolts!!!
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 18-06-2014
(18-06-2014, 08:48 PM)Piggy Wrote: nope, thats part fibre.
Is there a good motorfactors that would be willing to get a xud7 and xud9 gasket out for you to compare?
I'll pm you about bolts!!!
Good shout that man, I'll dig about in the warehouse tomorrow if I remember.
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
Ok! chers. If I ring pug stealership parts desk and ask them for part numbers or to have a measure for me
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 18-06-2014
Just checked servicebox, part number for the XUD7 is 0209 S0, and the XUD9 is 0209 S5.. guess they're different. Also they're listed as fibre gaskets, "without asbestos"
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 18-06-2014
Cheers! I'll see what pug say about sourcing one.
RE: It's head time... - Piggy - 18-06-2014
the change of S0 to S5 may just be a material change though?
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 18-06-2014
(18-06-2014, 09:05 PM)Piggy Wrote: the change of S0 to S5 may just be a material change though?
Like I said, I'll check tomorrow
RE: It's head time... - Dave - 19-06-2014
(17-06-2014, 10:33 PM)Ruan Wrote: For the record, same applies with non-AC and AC setups - gotta take off the whole bracket, lips under the sump - bloody stupid design, that one!
PERSONALLY I'm never a fan of doing this in the car, always feel you'd have saved just as much time/effort arsing round the tight bulkhead with the engine on the piss trying to get the gasket to sit in place with only one dowel, oil dripping in your face, fighting with the sump, working upside down getting annoyed with the oil pump location... For the effort it takes to rip the entire motor out, I'd always just do it - considering that removing the engine is only another 4 or so items from what you're doing once the top left engine mount is off, if you can possibly borrow an engine stand, will make your life so much easier, you can then spin the engine round etc.
You can then do a proper clean job of it.
However - It's totally doable in the car still mind...
Gotta disagree with Ruan on this one, I personally think its 10x quicker if you're not an absolute WIZZ at knowing exactly which bolt is what size; just to point this out ruan, the extra parts to remove the block you mean are -
Jack car up, remove both front wheels
Knock out both bottom balljoints
Pull both driveshafts out
Drain gearbox oil
Disconnect ALL wiring looms,
Disconnect all additional rad hoses, 1 at back and 2 at front
Disconnect gear linkages
Not to mention the additional risk of a) leaving rad in, or b) having to remove slam panel/rad. And also needing the addition of an engine crane. I've never had an issue lining up the gasket, and the additional steps listed above defo not worth the extra time doing those to have better access.
But, a proper 'clean' job then yes, take it out
RE: It's head time... - Ruan - 19-06-2014
Jack car up, remove both front wheels - you'd be doing this to remove sump.
Knock out both bottom balljoints - yep
Pull both driveshafts out - yep
Drain gearbox oil - yep
Disconnect ALL wiring looms - Two plugs... Come on!
Disconnect all additional rad hoses, 1 at back and 2 at front - You've gotta really drain the coolant anyway since you've got the head off, otherwise water will go everywhere - hardly a massive issue.
Disconnect gear linkages - 30 seconds with a crowbar.
Meh - I'd still always pull the motor, just to make the job a tidy one! Fighting with the inlet studs, water going everywhere, bending knees backwards... Sure it takes an engine crane - if you've not got one, you're stuffed...
Done it once or twice myself both ways, I know you have too, but I'd still go for the pull out option, just to save my fighting with the cambelt, change the manifold gasket whilst it's out, if you've got the turbo still attached to the head when pulling it out, it's a very awkward unwieldy heavy lump!!
RE: It's head time... - Dave - 19-06-2014
I know Matty managed to rebuild his bottom end on his driveway in the snow with my supervision (over the phone haha), I thought that was pretty impressive. Where has he gone anyway?
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 19-06-2014
Unfortunately I can't check either as there's no stock on the shelf.. I'm pretty sure the gaskets are different though.
RE: It's head time... - pugmanxud - 19-06-2014
Peugeot are next to useless after spending half hour of my long awaited half hour lunch break on the phone to them. They can order me one from peugeot. Only details they had were made from asbesdos free materials. So I then told the dealership parts 'expert' it is most likey a fibre one. He said they can't order it until I've paid for it and unreturnable as special order from pug. I said unless its an MLS gasket I might as well make one from a cornflake packet. Getting desperate now! May just go with an XUD 9 on!
For whoever finds somewhere that stocks one or can get one they'll have a free set of head studs for the privellige
Piggy will be on it like a pig in shit... literally
RE: It's head time... - Jonny81191 - 19-06-2014
Seriously, drop me a call at work or pm me your registration, I'll be surprised if I can't get one..