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+--- Thread: intercooler (/showthread.php?tid=2355)
intercooler - brettw1 - 21-03-2012
iv been offered an intercooler off my mates evo is it worth the hastle of doing it?
RE: intercooler - declantg - 21-03-2012
Without a doubt
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
as i say over and over again - depends what you're going for and what turbo you're on at the moment AND the fuel you're putting through...
Wacking a front mount on a stock dturbo will only lag your car...
Re: intercooler - Matty - 21-03-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Wacking a front mount on a stock dturbo will only lag your car...
Probably barely a noticeable amount of lag though
Also, TMIC FTW!!! teehee
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
Matty Wrote:ginge191 Wrote:Wacking a front mount on a stock dturbo will only lag your car...
Probably barely a noticeable amount of lag though
Also, TMIC FTW!!! teehee
Stock lucas + K14 + FMIC = laggggggg
and matty, while you're here and such a TMIC fan, how can i keep a TM, but prevent the rediculous heatsoak. im building a decent low end motor and starting to suffer after a lot of twisty-hitting... i dont fancy a gash bonnet scoop
RE: intercooler - declantg - 21-03-2012
Could you not take the inside carpet shit out and bodge some cold air feed from the front?
Re: intercooler - Matty - 21-03-2012
rofl...
not being funny, but im on a td04l, pushing probably around/over 40psi, its well, fairly laggy and gonna be way out of its efficiency producing a lot of heat i imagine
and I've been around the lanes today, giving stick all the time (Gonna upload a vid later), and it's not that bad. In the summer, I admit it is horrible after a good good good run. But people make it out to be the worst thing ever. I don't find it THAT bad - From my personal experience anyway.Also "+FMIC", the added pipework, won't even take that long to pressurise up. This is my point.
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
answered my question really well there :|
i feel the difference a lot, does my head in... but then you need to consider the air your pushing the disadvantage of warmer air.
almost equals itself... im running lower, more 'intense' boost, you could say, for very short blasts and i can feel the difference after a good 30minute bashing
Re: intercooler - Matty - 21-03-2012
Quote:answered my question really well there
rofl.
Well I'm not sure what I can do to help, because I have not encountered the problem majorly.
Well I guess if you suffer from bad charge temps...the answers are obvious aren't they really. FMIC/Meths.
"intense boost" ... confused?
What psi are you yet atm?
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
Matty Wrote:Quote:answered my question really well there
rofl.
Well I'm not sure what I can do to help, because I have not encountered the problem majorly.
Well I guess if you suffer from bad charge temps...the answers are obvious aren't they really. FMIC/Meths.
"intense boost" ... confused?
What psi are you yet atm?
my whole build is a low end build at the moment; any extension of any boost hoses will only result in slight lag. im running 18 at the moment... going to have a fiddle with the turbo over the summer as i've got more fuel to give..
Re: intercooler - Matty - 21-03-2012
Well, if your determined it's going to make too much of a difference. Water injection/meths would be cool ;D
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
Matty Wrote:Well, if your determined it's going to make too much of a big difference. Water injection/meths would be cool ;D
hm this is what im looking into, but seeming expensive, and a pita...
any useful starting links
Re: intercooler - Matty - 21-03-2012
Yea, they do. The Devilown stuff is. I remember talking to Dave ages ago about it. Could build one up quite cheap I suppose. But it looks quite easy to get carried away, boost switches 'n' all.
I think the devilown one is virtually the same as shurflo pump's iirc and there cheaper. Ask Dave/Ruan if I where you.
If I see anything, i'll post up.
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 21-03-2012
Matty Wrote:Yea, they do. The Devilown stuff is. I remember talking to Dave ages ago about it. Could build one up quite cheap I suppose. But it looks quite easy to get carried away, boost switches 'n' all.
I think the devilown one is virtually the same as shurflo pump's iirc and there cheaper. Ask Dave/Ruan if I where you.
If I see anything, i'll post up.
spot on, cheers mate - i'll get reading around it all.
Re: intercooler - Mattcheese31 - 22-03-2012
Sigh....Ginge, lag is only lag from a standstill, once you're boooosting ur boooooosting, just keep the MFer on blow... You need to stop speaking with authoity on the subject, i've seen u saying the same shit to noobs about fmic and tbf ur pretty out of tune...no offence mate but i'm calling things how i see them x.
Re: intercooler - Dave - 22-03-2012
There is threshold lag, and inertia lag, both dictated from exhaust gas velocity. One from engine rpm, and one from actual combustion. This is why teasing them with clutch can get them on boost quicker
A big big turbo wont get on boost as quick after a gearchange even though its past its threshold, because its waiting for combustion to happen aswell, the whole system has much more mass to move in the turbo. Hence why adding a charger etc helps because you get combustion to aid in exhaust flow bringing a larger turbo on way before it would normally on natural engine flow.
Re: RE: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
declantg Wrote:Could you not take the inside carpet shit out and bodge some cold air feed from the front?
How will that help, the "inside carpet shit" IS a cold air feed from the front if you actually look at it and it works rather well at that!
FMIC made no real noticeable difference at all in lag to mine but the TMIC isn't as bad as people make out!
Re: intercooler - Poodle - 22-03-2012
For once i agree with Ginge, I really dislike the feeling of heatsoak and I find it pretty noticeable. Completely different to how an HDi feels to drive which is what makes me think it's heatsoak causing the issue - the dt is great for the first 2 minutes of boost then just goes flat until i let it cool off by pootling for the next 15 minutes.
Unless you want to muck about with w/m inj as suggested above, or maybe an ice pack on the cooler every time you go for a spirited drive, then the best option is going to be an FMIC. From what i've experienced of cars with FMIC we're talking perhaps half a second difference in lag, if that. Difference in boost threshold, which is what i suspect you're actually talking about, was even less noticeable. If you're basing your assumptions on Phil's car then remember he's always got a boost leak lol, so it's going to take considerably longer to spool and respond to throttle inputs.
Re: intercooler - Dan! - 22-03-2012
FMIC will make next to no difference in lag, seriously! Probably like 100/200rpm, thats it....
Re: intercooler - Mattcheese31 - 22-03-2012
Poodle Wrote:For once i agree with Ginge, I really dislike the feeling of heatsoak and I find it pretty noticeable. Completely different to how an HDi feels to drive which is what makes me think it's heatsoak causing the issue - the dt is great for the first 2 minutes of boost then just goes flat until i let it cool off by pootling for the next 15 minutes.so you don't agree with Ginge then? . . . . .. .. :?
Unless you want to muck about with w/m inj as suggested above, or maybe an ice pack on the cooler every time you go for a spirited drive, then the best option is going to be an FMIC. From what i've experienced of cars with FMIC we're talking perhaps half a second difference in lag, if that. Difference in boost threshold, which is what i suspect you're actually talking about, was even less noticeable. If you're basing your assumptions on Phil's car then remember he's always got a boost leak lol, so it's going to take considerably longer to spool and respond to throttle inputs.
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
^^
"I will say that I agree with him and then actually disagree with everything he said in my post" Make you mind up Poodle
Re: intercooler - Poodle - 22-03-2012
Haha, worded that appallingly, what i meant to say is that i agree with that tiny little bit of his post that said he could really notice heatsoak. Otherwise it's all bollocks, naturally.
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
Poodle Wrote:Haha, worded that appallingly, what i meant to say is that i agree with that tiny little bit of his post that said he could really notice heatsoak. Otherwise it's all bollocks, naturally.
fair enough, a lot of people take out the bonnet lining because it looks tatty and then wonder why the TMIC is crap, erm, because you removed all the air flow to it by taking the liner out?!
Re: intercooler - Mattcheese31 - 22-03-2012
Poodle Wrote:Haha, worded that appallingly, what i meant to say is that i agree with that tiny little bit of his post that said he could really notice heatsoak. Otherwise it's all bollocks, naturally.. . . . . . . .
. . . . .i LOLed . . .
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 22-03-2012
Dan! Wrote:FMIC will make next to no difference in lag, seriously! Probably like 100/200rpm, thats it....
....which is a fair amount for my build
in all fairness, i understand what people are saying, and no, i have never installed a front mount, and never will i. I'm basing all my points on what i've read from other forums, not just pug forums, evo, scooby forums etc, and the complaints people make for front mounts..
So yes matt, disagree with me, im not here to cause arguements or prove a certain point.. the the issue i was raising in my first post here was to consider more than just dropping a front mount on the car for the sake of it..
and no, im not basing any opinions on phils car
Re: intercooler - Mattcheese31 - 22-03-2012
ginge191 Wrote:my problem is this Ginge . . . . .you swan about telling people not to install FMIC's like you know what you're talking about when in fairness you don't, have your own opinion sure don't we all, but perhaps it'd be better telling people (noobs) especially that this is your hypotheses rather than your experience, ie "don't install a FMIC because it'll make your car worse" . . . . . . .and i have heard that from you . .Dan! Wrote:FMIC will make next to no difference in lag, seriously! Probably like 100/200rpm, thats it....
....which is a fair amount when im going for booooooost
in all fairness, i understand what people are saying, and no, i have never installed a front mount, and never will i. I'm basing all my points on what i've read from other forums, not just pug forums, evo, scooby forums etc, and the complaints people make for front mounts..
So yes matt, disagree with me, im not here to cause arguements or prove a certain point.. the the issue i was raising in my first post here was to consider more than just dropping a front mount on the car for the sake of it..
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 22-03-2012
Mattcheese31 Wrote:my problem is this Ginge . . . . .you swan about telling people not to install FMIC's like you know what you're talking about when in fairness you don't, have your own opinion sure don't we all, but perhaps it'd be better telling people (noobs) especially that this is your hypotheses rather than your experience, ie "don't install a FMIC because it'll make your car worse" . . . . . . .and i have heard that from you . .
ginge191 Wrote:as i say over and over again - depends what you're going for
is hardly swanning about telling someone NOT to install a front mount... :|
Re: intercooler - Mattcheese31 - 22-03-2012
i'm not out to offend . . . . .i've said my bit and you know i'm right so let's draw a line under this whole sordid affair . . . .
Re: intercooler - ginge191 - 22-03-2012
ok...
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
Alright, let's chill. But I do agree with Mark on this one, as he's just emphasised what I've said.
"FMIC made no real noticeable difference at all in lag to mine but the TMIC isn't as bad as people make out!"
Kind of summed it up I thought. But if you don't believe in wanting to FMIC, and there's not really much you could do to the TMIC itself, it's what I've said yesterday really I suppose, water/meth injection. ;D
edit:
Peaceout xx