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+--- Thread: Brakes arent very good. (/showthread.php?tid=22472)
Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
Figured this deserved a thread really. Basically my brakes are rubbish. Fronts work rears not so much. This is Darren worked out based on the if you pull the handbrake up they work. So today i took them apart cleaned and greased everything adjusted them up roughly with the drum on and off then put it on and tightened the wheel bearing then done a final adjustment through a wheel bolt hole. Hand brake is a bit better foot brake still shit. There was plenty of meat on the shoes and the drum i stupidly didnt measure before i put it back. Im trying to upload a picture at the moment but photobucket is being a massive lady garden. Brain storm whats going wrong...
![[Image: 20140323_125150_zpsi413mq1g.jpg]](http://s817.photobucket.com/user/tomw1123/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140323_125150_zpsi413mq1g.jpg.html)
Now are those pads on the right way? I just got out the shower and looked at that again and i swear they're on wrong...
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Grant - 23-03-2014
Yeah the pads are on the right way... But the inside of the drum looks f*cked as! The mating face to the pads looks rusted to f*ck!
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Niall - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:20 PM)Grant Wrote: Yeah the pads are on the right way... But the inside of the drum looks f*cked as! The mating face to the pads looks rusted to f*ck!
This. Looks like they have been seized for a long time maybe.
Also, start simple and do a fluid change if it hasn't been done in a while. You would be surprised the difference it will make!
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Matt - 23-03-2014
That does look f*cked internally lol
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
That picture was the before didnt take an after. I took it all off wire brushed the shit out of the back plate and greased all the contact points. Adjusters were cleaned and greased along with anything else that moved.
And i gave the brakes a quick bleed. Still fairly shit.
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
drums do look bad, have you tightened the handbrake at the lever yet? . .
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:31 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: drums do look bad, have you tightened the handbrake at the lever yet? . .
No i havent, i thought that was just taking up cable slack not an actual adjustment as such?
RE: Brakes arent very good. - darrenjlobb - 23-03-2014
Am i missing something here, we are commenting on drums, but you cant even see the drum in the photo??
Tom, have you adjusted up the adjuster in the center of those drums until they just "scrape" the discs when there on? they still looking retracted right back to me?
Those liners look fine, loads of meat on them, was execting them to be slogged out, so jsut needs adjustment, but if it was me, id strip it right down, blow out the crap, and put grease on all the sliding surfaces, but tbh just blow it out, grease it up in the right places and adjsut it up...will be fine...and as Niall said, bleeding the brakes also wouldnt be a bad plan, not only to refresh the fluid but to work any air out, as some of your slack could be air in the line...but 90% of it is drum adjustment, trust me.
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Grant - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:41 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Am i missing something here, we are commenting on drums, but you cant even see the drum in the photo??
Touche.
Teach me for talking about drums when I have discs :p
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
I'll try harder tomorrow then lol I thought i had done it this time but to me i can feel maybe a tony improvement but the pedal still goes way down
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:41 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Am i missing something here, we are commenting on drums, but you cant even see the drum in the photo??
Tom, have you adjusted up the adjuster in the center of those drums until they just "scrape" the discs when there on? they still looking retracted right back to me?
Those liners look fine, loads of meat on them, was execting them to be slogged out, so jsut needs adjustment, but if it was me, id strip it right down, blow out the crap, and put grease on all the sliding surfaces, but tbh just blow it out, grease it up in the right places and adjsut it up...will be fine...and as Niall said, bleeding the brakes also wouldnt be a bad plan, not only to refresh the fluid but to work any air out, as some of your slack could be air in the line...but 90% of it is drum adjustment, trust me.
fcuk me you're entirely correct sir . . . .i'll get my coat, i must be tired or summit . . . .
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:34 PM)Tom Wrote:(23-03-2014, 05:31 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: drums do look bad, have you tightened the handbrake at the lever yet? . .
No i havent, i thought that was just taking up cable slack not an actual adjustment as such?
yes mate, but you obviously need a certain amount of tension to make it work, i always get my handbrake bob on, can't understand why people struggle . .
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Curt - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 05:41 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Am i missing something here, we are commenting on drums, but you cant even see the drum in the photo??
I'm glad you said that, I've been sitting here wondering if a picture had failed to load as that's clearly a picture of shoes on the back plate...
RE: Brakes arent very good. - darrenjlobb - 23-03-2014
Keep adjusting them up until it trys to bind on the drum...and remember what i told you to grind the lip off the drum, or else this process is impossible, the lip needs to be totally remvoed so you can adjust up against the wearing surface...
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
I noticed just assumed everyone was being retarded so i let it slide
(23-03-2014, 06:21 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Keep adjusting them up until it trys to bind on the drum...and remember what i told you to grind the lip off the drum, or else this process is impossible, the lip needs to be totally remvoed so you can adjust up against the wearing surface...
Yeah i did grind the lip off, just having a hard time getting them to that point, i dont know why, it sounds easy and it should be. Will have another go tomorrow and see what happens.
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Frosty - 23-03-2014
Dunno if it has been said but you want to let the cables off so the hand brake lever is against the shoe and then adjust it up on the adjuster
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 07:16 PM)Frosty Wrote: Dunno if it has been said but you want to let the cables off so the hand brake lever is against the shoe and then adjust it up on the adjuster
this . .^^^^^ . .
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
You mean handbrake off whilst im adjusting it?
I just read something online so had to go and try it. What i read was as follows:
Push on the brake pedal 5 times in quick succession then hold on the 5th and pull up the handbrake, then release the footbrake and then the handbrake and do it 5 times.
I done that and i think it might have actually done something. The brakes seem to work better once i've taken up the slack in the pedal. So to explain the problem im having a bit better, when the handbrake is up and i mean handbrake upto the point where i can feel myself slowing ever so slightly THEN and only then the footbrake feels much better. But but surely i cant adjust the handbrake to the point where its actually dragging to get a decent foot brake feel!?
And also i had a thought. This is a pov spec 205 with 266mm callipers up front is it possible that the slack/pedal travel is because of that? Perhaps i need a beefier master cylinder?
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Frosty - 23-03-2014
Yeah hand brake off. I would of fort you would struggle like hell to get the drum off if you had the hand brake on
Oh and yeah maybe try a gti master cylinder though I dunno if they are different like 306 1s are depending on spec
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
how many clicks you pulling the handbrake on?
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
Well thats what im thinking, from what i've worked out i have a 19mm master cylinder. What do hdi's have? Arent they 23mm?
Matt im not sure mate i think its something like 5/6 its to much put it that way lol!
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Jimbo - 23-03-2014
You check the wheel cylinders arent siezed??
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Mattcheese31 - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 08:11 PM)Tom Wrote: Well thats what im thinking, from what i've worked out i have a 19mm master cylinder. What do hdi's have? Arent they 23mm?
Matt im not sure mate i think its something like 5/6 its to much put it that way lol!
basically when i do mine, i adjust the shoes out so the drums scrape when you're refitting them, obviously making sure they're clean (brake cleaner and wire wool), make sure there's no lip round the inside, then adjust the nut on the handbrake lever until the car holds on 3 clicks,
as long as system is properly bled with decent fluid it's always great, handbrake turns innit blud? . . . . .
RE: Brakes arent very good. - Tom - 23-03-2014
(23-03-2014, 08:12 PM)Jimbo Wrote: You check the wheel cylinders arent siezed??
Yeah they're all good.
(23-03-2014, 08:17 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote:(23-03-2014, 08:11 PM)Tom Wrote: Well thats what im thinking, from what i've worked out i have a 19mm master cylinder. What do hdi's have? Arent they 23mm?
Matt im not sure mate i think its something like 5/6 its to much put it that way lol!
basically when i do mine, i adjust the shoes out so the drums scrape when you're refitting them, obviously making sure they're clean (brake cleaner and wire wool), make sure there's no lip round the inside, then adjust the nut on the handbrake lever until the car holds on 3 clicks,
as long as system is properly bled with decent fluid it's always great, handbrake turns innit blud? . . . . .
In that case i might well try that tomorrow and see what happens...