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+--- Thread: Brakes lost there bite (/showthread.php?tid=19666)
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Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
Hi,
My brakes have seemed to lost their bite, no matter if I change disc and pads they still don't seem to be that sharp.
Could it be the servo starting to give up or is it the master cylinder?
I tried to bleed them the other day and I noticed the OSF there was signs of something like metal dust flowing out as I bleed them. Could this be signs of a worn master cylinder?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Tom - 17-12-2013
My 306 had 6' brakes and they were crap, the 205 has 266's and they're crap as well! Just enjoy it, makes the drive more interesting knowing you might not stop!
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
(17-12-2013, 09:24 PM)Tom Wrote: My 306 had 6' brakes and they were crap, the 205 has 266's and they're crap as well! Just enjoy it, makes the drive more interesting knowing you might not stop!
They are 266 on mine but they use to be really good and they gone off over time. I've only realised after driving my girlfriends 206 DTurbo how bad mine have got.
I like everything to work as it should on my car.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Jonny81191 - 17-12-2013
Could be either or both tbh, aren't you on silly miles?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Piggy - 17-12-2013
What pads you replaced with?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Rippthrough - 17-12-2013
fresh fluid?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
(17-12-2013, 09:30 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: Could be either or both tbh, aren't you on silly miles?
Yep, but they are mainly motorway miles.
(17-12-2013, 09:35 PM)Piggy Wrote: What pads you replaced with?
I always use to use EBC green with EBC discs (the dimple and grooved type) but I've now stuck Pagit pads with Brembo max groove discs. It's not made them worse since changing.
Also I've changed the seals in the front calipers which made it better but they still don't have the bite they use to.
(17-12-2013, 09:40 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: fresh fluid?
Fluid is done every two years and was last done last weekend when I rebuilt the front calipers again.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Jonny81191 - 17-12-2013
Does the pedal seem harder to push than it should?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
I would say no. It doesn't feel like asist has gone. I use to have a 405 nad and that use to have a belt going to a vacuum pump, I remember the belt use to sometimes lose tension and the asist would go, this is not like that. Does that mean it's more likely to be the master cylinder?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Jonny81191 - 17-12-2013
I'd say so, it's also easier to change so I'd do that first.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
Cheers, I'll give it a go.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - C2K - 17-12-2013
Did you drain the system down at all?
My brakes are 6 calipers and are just awesome for bite and modulation with decent pads and discs.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
I've not drained them dry before, if thats what you mean. I usually drain the reservoir to the low point then top up with fresh fluid then use an easy bleed to flush the fluid through the system. Seeing particles in the fluid on the one side has alarmed me. So there must be something wearing in the system?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Piggy - 17-12-2013
Be unlikely that particles had made their way from the mc to the caliper. Its not a constant flow of fluid.
If the pedal has gone harder that sounds like servo/vacuum problem
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 17-12-2013
(17-12-2013, 10:37 PM)Piggy Wrote: Be unlikely that particles had made their way from the mc to the caliper. Its not a constant flow of fluid.
If the pedal has gone harder that sounds like servo/vacuum problem
The particles were there as I was flushing the system. You could see them through the clear pipe that I attached to the bleed nipple.
The pedal hasn't gone hard like it does when the engines not running. I think the servo is ok.
The rubber pipe from the vacuum pump to the solid pipe that goes on the bulkhead is also fine. I've heard about these getting kinked and going flat from the suction.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - C2K - 18-12-2013
Are your flexi hoses healthy? I've replaced all 4 of mine, helped the pedal feel at the time.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - silverzx - 18-12-2013
The 266's in my 205 are more then capable imo!
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 18-12-2013
(18-12-2013, 07:38 AM)C2K Wrote: Are your flexi hoses healthy? I've replaced all 4 of mine, helped the pedal feel at the time.
The front ones were replaced with Goodrich braided hoses and I never got around to doing the rears but I will over the Christmas break.
(18-12-2013, 09:20 AM)silverzx Wrote: The 266's in my 205 are more then capable imo!
Yeah, I thought they where good on mine, they're better on my girlfriends 206. I know it's a lighter car also hers are the Bosch calipers and I think they have a slightly larger pad area. I've never had any brake fade on mine when I use to drive it hard.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Martin306 - 18-12-2013
On my 106, the rear hoses were swelling so much my pedal travelled further and made my brakes feel spongy. So it could be your rear hoses.
Braided all round ftw!
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 18-12-2013
(18-12-2013, 09:19 PM)Martin306 Wrote: On my 106, the rear hoses were swelling so much my pedal travelled further and made my brakes feel spongy. So it could be your rear hoses.
Braided all round ftw!
I'll change them and report back. Hopefully it'll be a nice cheap fix. New master cylinders are over £100 new.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Ruan - 20-12-2013
Yeah, my gti6 brakes are pretty violent tbf... Sounds like MC seals failing to me... Or hoses failing...
RE: Brakes lost there bite - zx_volcane - 20-12-2013
My gti-6 brakes don't bite all that well
Have replaced the MC, braided hoses all round, new fluid, new discs and pads ..etc
Running mintex m1144, although they've already eaten a set of discs
Haven't been able to track it down, the gti6 setup on my old zx would put your face through the windscreen no problem.
Only thoughts is that it could be a slightly sticky slider somewhere.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Anton - 20-12-2013
Hmmmm what are these things called 'brakes'?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Piggy - 20-12-2013
I use standard spec mintex discs/pads with 5.1fluid and braided all round...rips ya face off in the dry. Great pedal feel too. So something is amiss
RE: Brakes lost there bite - cully - 20-12-2013
mine on my 6 works well on std pads n disc they grab real quick compared to my 266's on the estate
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Rippthrough - 20-12-2013
(20-12-2013, 10:29 AM)Anton Wrote: Hmmmm what are these things called 'brakes'?
There what those of us who drive fast enough need before corners. Doesn't matter at your pace though
RE: Brakes lost there bite - Anton - 20-12-2013
(20-12-2013, 04:01 PM)Rippthrough Wrote:(20-12-2013, 10:29 AM)Anton Wrote: Hmmmm what are these things called 'brakes'?
There what those of us who drive fast enough need before corners. Doesn't matter at your pace though
Lol Ripp you have no idea...
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 20-12-2013
(20-12-2013, 10:24 AM)Ruan Wrote: Yeah, my gti6 brakes are pretty violent tbf... Sounds like MC seals failing to me... Or hoses failing...
If it's the MC wouldn't the pads wear at different rates? I ask this on the thought that wouldn't the one circuit start to fail before the other?
RE: Brakes lost there bite - DeeTurbo - 24-03-2014
A little update on this, I've replaced the M/C tonight to no avail. I'm going to try the rear hoses next.
It does feel like air in the system but I've bleed 1.5l of fluid through and no bubbles are coming out. One thing though the replacement M/C I put on started leaking from where it joins the reservoir under pressure from the easy bleed system so I've got brake fluid all down the buckhead and I think it started to react with the paint before I seen it and could washed it off.
Can't believe it's been three months and I've not sorted it yet.
RE: Brakes lost there bite - anto - 27-03-2014
Ive never been in a 306 with brakes that "bite", they've all been spongeyish but they stopped it well enough.
Never a fan of brakes with bite, I prefer it more progressive.