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+--- Thread: Fuel Pump? (/showthread.php?tid=18293)
Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 24-10-2013
Hi All,
I think my High pressure fuel pump has packed in, but before i go buying a reconditioned Pump i wanna know if there's anything i can do.
I can get the car started with abit easy start and a jump.. running and idleing, so it's not the lift pump. I can sit a rev the car over and over and the car is fine and it won't cut out...but start to drive the car soon as it's underload it cuts out.. i've replaced the fuel filter and housing, i've cleaned the FPR senor and ran some Forte through.
When i've put it on the diagnostics machine it brings up a code "p0230" and i've googled it and brings up pretty much the same issues apart from the fact they can't get the car started but i can?
Does anyone have any idea what it could be?
Cheers
Chez
RE: Fuel Pump? - andywhy - 24-10-2013
Change the fuel filter first to make sure it's not a flow issue. It might idle and rev OK but under boost you need more fuel and it can't supply it, so the rail pressure drops and it cuts out.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 24-10-2013
Already changed the filter and housing
RE: Fuel Pump? - Ruan - 24-10-2013
(24-10-2013, 10:31 AM)ChezHdi Wrote: I can get the car started with abit easy start and a jump.. running and idleing, so it's not the lift pump. I can sit a rev the car over and over and the car is fine and it won't cut out...but start to drive the car soon as it's underload it cuts out..
Why does this indicate that it's not the Lift Pump?!
That sounds typical of lift pump to me - the lift pump cannot supply enough fuel under load, therefore the HP pump hasn't got enough fuel, therefore the rail pressure drops and it cuts...
Change the LP pump.
Way I see it? The LP pump is the most COMMON item to fail on these cars, not yet have I seen a stage 1 or OEM HDi have issues with the HP pump, stage 2s will sometimes show up a HP pump being a little weak, but it's 99% of the time the lift pump causing the issue.
It's also a £70 fix - not £500+ for a new CR pump, then cambelt off and back on (therefore preferably a new cambelt and tensioners)... You can do a HP pump on the cheap, but you're asking for problems in the future.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 24-10-2013
I wouldn't have thought that would have effected it once the car is started using the LP the HP drags it through? i'm not that machincally minded so it well could be the issue, i'd rather go with the cheaper LP than spending fortunes on it
RE: Fuel Pump? - Ruan - 24-10-2013
HP can't drag fuel through
That's why it has a lift pump :pRemember - the ECU is looking for 3bar or so in the rail before it'll allow the car to start... If it's not getting that, it won't start - that's why you have to get the engine speed going so that the HP pump starts generating enough combined with the lift pump - then as soon as you ask for any more than idle or just revving on the spot - it'll just cut out as the LP isn't supplying enough fuel to keep with demand.
I'd go straight for LP pump if that were me.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 24-10-2013
Hah thanks for that, ill give it a shot and see how it goes.
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 24-10-2013
Lift pump is rarely the issue, despite popular internet dogma. I've fixed a fair few of these with p0230 and only one has turned out to be the lift pump. That's not to say yours isn't the lp pump, but it doesn't pay to assume. Were there any gold filings in the filter housing when you changed it? You will be able to hear the lift pump running when you first turn the ignition on, its under the osr seat base.
Rail pressure needs to be more like 280bar before it'll fire. How many miles has the car done?
RE: Fuel Pump? - E_KEL95 - 24-10-2013
Happend me within past 2 weeks i thoght it was the HP pump turned our to be the lift pump, imo replace the cheaper option first
RE: Fuel Pump? - Jimbo - 24-10-2013
Lift pump will supply 3 bar on its own. Get someone to plug in and watch live data as said when cranking should see 280bar fairly quickly if not could be the hp pump or even a faulty rail pressure sensor
Id also assume lp pump and change that first
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 24-10-2013
Reading through your posts again it does sound a lot like the lift pump tbf, the link in my sig has a few tests you can do to narrow it down if you'd rather not throw money at it.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 24-10-2013
(24-10-2013, 04:05 PM)Poodle Wrote: Were there any gold filings in the filter housing when you changed it? You will be able to hear the lift pump running when you first turn the ignition on, its under the osr seat base.
Rail pressure needs to be more like 280bar before it'll fire. How many miles has the car done?
There was no shavings I could see, I wasn't partically looking for them though, the cars done 92k. When changing the lift pump is it just simply buying another OE in tank pump or does it have to be a certain reference?
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 24-10-2013
Fair enough, pretty low mileage then. What fuel filter have you put in? One of the cars i've fixed used a brand new halfords filter and it was actually too restrictive! Can you hear the pump priming when you turn the ignition on?
There's only the one type of lift pump for the 306 hdi to the best of my knowledge, so should be fairly easy to order.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 25-10-2013
(24-10-2013, 08:31 PM)Poodle Wrote: Fair enough, pretty low mileage then. What fuel filter have you put in?
Can you hear the pump priming when you turn the ignition on?
There's only the one type of lift pump for the 306 hdi to the best of my knowledge, so should be fairly easy to order.
I used my local parts deal and just asked for OE 306hdi 90 servicing kit + filter housing, it looked pretty much identical apart from my other one looked as if it wasn't far off collapsing... As per the pump I've looked on the likes of ebay and euro carparts etc they all seem to be just one type.. i'll just get them to reg check it before purchasing to make sure.
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 25-10-2013
Oh could be anything then, did changing the filter make any difference to the issue at all? I take it the issue started suddenly, or has it been developing for some time?
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 28-10-2013
Changing the filter made it start better but didn't do anything when you were putting it underload... i was litrally driving along and the car cut out, couldn't get it started. Then when i got it home jump leads and easy start got it going then it would just die when you tried to put your foot down but yet i could sit a rev it over and over.
Anyways... Bought the Lift pump, fitted it - Car is trying to turn over but not a cough or splutter or anything.
The pump primes for deffinate i left the rear seat out etc
i'm stuck, am i right in thinking it is either gonna be something wrong with the injectors or infact the HP?
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 28-10-2013
Sorry to hear that fella, really need to do some testing to find out what's going on. The link in my sig has a lot of info and if you know someone that can do some live diagnostics for you that'd be a great help.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 28-10-2013
(28-10-2013, 01:47 PM)Poodle Wrote: Sorry to hear that fella, really need to do some testing to find out what's going on. The link in my sig has a lot of info and if you know someone that can do some live diagnostics for you that'd be a great help.
Thanks, i'll have a look see what i can sort out. Thanks for your help
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 28-10-2013
No problem, do shout if there's anything else we can help with - clarification or whatever.
Just checking over the thread to make sure there's nothing i've missed and there is one thing - you say you've cleaned the fpr sensor, do you mean the fuel rail pressure sensor or the fuel pressure regulator valve? Pressure sensor is on the rail, regulator is on the pump. I would guess it's the one on the pump you've cleaned out, but thought i'd make sure.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 29-10-2013
Yeah sorry it was the one on the pump i cleaned, not the one on the rail itself.
with the car standing a while could the fuel lines be blocked/clogged with crap?.. if i try an bump the car would that drag the fuel through? j
RE: Fuel Pump? - E_KEL95 - 29-10-2013
Thats a sickner lad, your problem seems to be a rare one where for a change its not the lift pump at fault, hope you get it sorted soon hateful not having your car on the road mines was off for near a month with numerous problems
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 29-10-2013
(29-10-2013, 11:47 AM)E_KEL95 Wrote: Thats a sickner lad, your problem seems to be a rare one where for a change its not the lift pump at fault, hope you get it sorted soon hateful not having your car on the road mines was off for near a month with numerous problems
Yeah, it's got me sick
Poor things just sitting on the driver feeling sorry for herself... Gonna try a few things off Poodles "Guide" and see if that sorts any of it out.. I'm hoping it will as i doubt i'll have the money to resucue her if it's the HP.
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 29-10-2013
It's not rare at all, yours is only the second case i've ever seen where it was actually the lift pump at fault E_Kel. As said before, there's a myth that's been around for years that all fuel problems on these engines are caused by the lift pump dying, but it's complete nonsense.
Ok, definitely the fpr you cleaned out then. Wasn't being picky, just one's called the fprv and the other is the frps, so they're quite easily confused lol. I don't think the lines could be blocked, you can check by disconnecting the feed line at the engine bay end and sticking it into a bottle (at least a litre capacity, these things kick out a surprising amount in a short time), then turning the ignition on. It should fill the bottle pretty rapidly if there's no obstruction to flow.
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 30-10-2013
I'll give it a go when i get back
RE: Fuel Pump? - ChezHdi - 05-11-2013
Fuel is getting to the engine, so the lift pump is working.. i'm thinking something with the injectors or the pump itself, trying to get it into the garage this weekend.. if it is i simply don't have the money to sort it and it probably a trip to the scrap yard in the sky for the poor thing.
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 05-11-2013
Sorry to hear that mate, does sound a lot like there's hp component issues tbh, you've pretty much exhausted the other options.
RE: Fuel Pump? - DeeTurbo - 06-11-2013
Sorry I've only had time to skim read this thread but this sound like something that happened to me.
In my case it was down to a broken wire from the FPS.
The sensor is on the bottom of the rail I think it has a red plug connected to it check this is in all the way.
Next if you follow the cable down to the sump there is a second connector there or at the bottom of the block, this one is yellow and it's cable tied to stop it coming apart, check the cable tie is still holding this together.
The problem on mine was when I had the cam belt done the dick of a mechanic damaged the wire where it goes in to the yellow plug. One of the wires broke and the engine cut out, I restarted it but every time I tried pulling away the engine stalled.
If you check on a OBD reader and look at the live data from the rail I bet the ecu won't see the pressure change when you rev it.
When I was looking about it see what I could find when I got it home I think I must have disturbed the broken cable and it must of started shorting because after that the car wouldn't start.
It wasn't till I found the wire moved it away from the block that I could start up again but still had the same problem, where it died after putting load on.
I repaired the wire and it worked fine after that.
Good luck and I hope you can fix yours.
RE: Fuel Pump? - craig306hdi - 11-11-2013
Hi.there I.had this same problem with my 306 Hdi aswell last week aswell changed lift pump and now.it will start of the key eventually turns put after taking glow plugs out and testing them today 11.11.13 that the glow plugs are totally naffed on another note tho don't use easy start on the Hdi as.it's bad for then use brake cleaner as there some chemical in easy start that fucks then up compared to brake cleaner
RE: Fuel Pump? - Poodle - 12-11-2013
You shouldn't find the glow plugs make much diffference, except from in very cold weather. Mine are knackered and it starts every time without an issue.