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+-- Forum: Engines (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: DW10 HDi section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: 16 Valve HDi? (/showthread.php?tid=1097)
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16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Hi guys,
Well I'm probably gonna be asking some daft HDi questions over the next few days.....
Basically I was just wondering if the 16V head from the HDi136 (?) would fit the DW10 in the 306? It seems that there aren't any 16V HDis on here (from using the search....so theres probably hundreds lol!
) and just wondered why not? Surely there'd be quite an advantage from that? Or is it more hassle than it's worth?
Also, just wondered how you know what stuff would be compatible with HDis, like which turbo's and FMICs and stuff? Is it just trial and error lol?
And lastly...how hard/expensive would it be to get 150+bhp from a HDi with a low budget? Using 2nd hand parts from ebay, different turbo, 16v head?, FMIC, map etc.....
Cheers
Tom
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Connor - 25-01-2012
You should really read darrens threads... and for 150hp, FMIC and remap...
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Midnightclub - 25-01-2012
Darrens using the 16v head for his M-TDI 16v project, other than that i don't know of anyone using the 16v head.
If you did all the work yourself or at least had free labor from friends etc.. you could do an FMIC for under £150 + Mapping costs
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Darrens didn't come up on the search lol! I'll have a read through it then. 
And yes, all labour for fitting would be free.
So looking at around £200 roughly...hmm....cheers.
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Daniel306 - 25-01-2012
16v head alone will be £400+ for one that's not scrap
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Daniel306 Wrote:16v head alone will be £400+ for one that's not scrap
Whaaaa? :o
How come?? Surely they're half of that in scrap yards!?
hock:
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Poodle - 25-01-2012
Tom you f*cking troll, how many posts and you still need to ask how to get an HDi to 150..?
Danny hasn't mentioned that the moment your clutch smells a stage 2 map, it'll throw a hissyfit...
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Chris - 25-01-2012
You'll need the 16v pistons too, on and the 2.0 16v it runns simens managment so you'd need to sort injectors too.
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Lol Poodle......I was gonna ask for 170bhp but then decided that sounded too high.......I guess I should've known from people like Warlod that a FMIC and map can see 150!
Chris Wrote:You'll need the 16v pistons too, on and the 2.0 16v it runns simens managment so you'd need to sort injectors too.
Really? Oh, guess theres a lot more work/expense involved than I expected!
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Connor - 25-01-2012
Well dum dum ran 167 (I think) so near enough 170... but he had slippage, 150 is obtainable without slippage though
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Dan! - 25-01-2012
Dums was 163bhp Connor, close though. Although IIRC that was at 17psi and his map was designed for 19.
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - darrenjlobb - 25-01-2012
Ill reply in here instead of pm chat that way everyone can see
Basically yes the 16v head will fit right onto a DW10 bottom end as the blocks are identical, but unless your rebuilding the motor, it wouldnt be worth the hassle as you would have to change all the pistons etc (nozzle angle change / 4 valve cutouts)..so be easier to run with the complete 16v dw motor to start with in your boots id have thought....Unless your planning on rebuilding it like me however...in which case blocks are identical...
Im not hugely clued up with common rail, so as for injectors I cant tell you, basically, if the bosch management will fire siemens injectors, then id imagine it would be fine....but if there not compatible, then you will need to source other CR injectors as the nozzle angle is different to the 8v obviously, and you dont want any holes in the pistons
But no reason why you couldnt run a complete 16v hdi motor on orignal bosch management with custom injectors.... there are quite a few other higgles as well that you would have to overcome, but nothing hugely major....
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - MrsMidnight - 25-01-2012
Poodle, mines 150 and has been for about 5 months and clutch is fine
From danny..
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Cheers for that darren!
Definitely given me some stuff to think about....Pretty sure I can't afford the whole 16 v block so will have to see what I can do. Which cars use the same engine out of interest, think I saw in your thread that some Fords also use it?
I can see now why more people don't do it, but I'm not gonna give up just yet.
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Connor - 25-01-2012
Not "some" fords tom, all modern fords upto 2.0 use pug diesel engines
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Foxy-jim - 25-01-2012
Nice to see something different being tried out!
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Foxy-jim Wrote:Nice to see something different being tried out!Possibly being tried lol.
. Gonna be down to money again I think. :?
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Foxy-jim - 25-01-2012
Get saving!
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Jonny81191 - 25-01-2012
Mine (was Dum's) will be probably 170 after I fit my MBC and get the boost up to 19 psi.
I'll need a clutch though, and that'll cost a fair whack!
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Poodle - 25-01-2012
Heh, sorry couldn't resist.
Anything guaranteed to take you past 160bhp begins to get expensive, depends how far you want to take it.Forgot your clutch was still ok Danny, got to be in a minority though...?
16 Valve HDi? - Jonny b - 25-01-2012
Toms306 Wrote:Cheers for that darren!
Definitely given me some stuff to think about....Pretty sure I can't afford the whole 16 v block so will have to see what I can do. Which cars use the same engine out of interest, think I saw in your thread that some Fords also use it?
I can see now why more people don't do it, but I'm not gonna give up just yet.
How the f*ck are you going to afford that Tom? You moan about a car doing 40+ mpg
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Jonny81191 - 25-01-2012
Jonny b Wrote:How the f*ck are you going to afford that Tom? You moan about a car doing 40+ mpg
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Toms306 - 25-01-2012
Jonny b Wrote:Toms306 Wrote:Cheers for that darren!
Definitely given me some stuff to think about....Pretty sure I can't afford the whole 16 v block so will have to see what I can do. Which cars use the same engine out of interest, think I saw in your thread that some Fords also use it?
I can see now why more people don't do it, but I'm not gonna give up just yet.
How the f*ck are you going to afford that Tom? You moan about a car doing 40+ mpg
Because I don't WANT to pay ridiculous prices for fuel for a car I.don't even like,.....paying for shiny things that make you go faster though.......is very different!
Plus, this is currently all theoretical for a paper based college project atm....
16 Valve HDi? - Jonny b - 25-01-2012
Ha ha so its not going to happen you just want to rob peoples knowledge to pass your course!! Win for the deviousness
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - darrenjlobb - 25-01-2012
Who acaully says they run siemens management anyway? IIRC thats a load of crap, as both ones ive had have been bosch CR EDC15C2.....
IIRC the siemens ones are the volvo ones etc that have the HP pump attached to the camshaft and the plastic intake...and the ally intake ones with the convention HP pump in its normal place are bosch as far as I can see?
16 Valve HDi? - Jonny b - 26-01-2012
Ka
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Chris - 26-01-2012
Darren. TB, said they run simens. Will have a look on serive box later and see.
I know the 2.2 16v runs bosch and the heads pretty much the same (uses the same HG) although the pistons are the same diamiter the little end may be in a diffrent place meaning custom rods may be needed.
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - darrenjlobb - 26-01-2012
Would the Siemens management normally run bosche injectors? Guess they might.... Either way, the injectors out my 2.0 16v motor are Bosch....so can't see any reason why you can't just run it on stock management mapped....
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - sweeney1987 - 26-01-2012
think the confusion lies where people are talking about different engines.
I asked about the 1.6 hdi 16valve, tb said it runs siemens and any ive seen since do infact run on that sytem.
cant comment on the 2.0 though
Re: 16 Valve HDi? - Chris - 26-01-2012
The DV6's (1.6's) run R70 bosch pumps though?
Just a quick look on service box and the 2.0 16v (in the 307 and 407) run siemens or delphini pumps cam mounted.
Darren, just a thought, if you have Bosch injectors in yours maybe its the 2.2 head?