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+--- Thread: Matts Onyx Rallye. 182.1bhp & 154.5ft/lb Wilwoods & axle arrived! Welding finished! (/showthread.php?tid=21456)
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
Yeah but thats a good thing? The brembos simply dont fit with 306 discs at all.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
too large a diameter as I said, hence the use of 288x28.
damn, nobody around here reads do they?
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
You said they were a no go on the hubs, not the diameter
Maybe make your cryptic information a little easier for us mere mortals too read?
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - osm2121 - 15-10-2014
With 306 hubs, Brembos are straight fit with Xantias, cause they match perfectly with the offset of the disc. Xantias disc have an offset (total height) of 34,1mm, original 306 283's are somewhere around 24mm I think (also a no go), and 305's are even less than that. So, you'd need spacers to move the calipers because of the larger diameter, and also move them outside of the car over 10mm to fit those discs. It's a no go!
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
If they were a perfect match they wouldn't be squealing
They are very nearly perfect and tbh i think i shall give a couple of drive flanges too my mates engineering firm to experiment with machining a few thou off the flange to allow the disc to sit perfectly.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
406's with Brembos squeal too, its the caliper not the disc I think.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
Well i'll give it a bash at making it as good as i can
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
that would entail bunging the standard calipers back on
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Piggy - 15-10-2014
Surely if you could spacer the calipers further back and thus run a disc with more offset this would also allow for more fitment behind 15" alloys??
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - osm2121 - 15-10-2014
I said is the perfect match conserning the offset, for straight fit, not that they are the perfect combination for performance and silence. If you want to put any other disc, you´ll need spacers. And the disc might not sit exactly in the middle inside the caliper, might be some tenths of mm out of the center, never measured that, but that doesnt make squealing, just makes one side pistons travel a bit further, but as pressure is equal in all directions, the braking force applied by each pad over the disc, will be exactly the same, so, squealing is not about offset.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
Well i guess i will soon find out
The squealing stops under hard braking and is very loud under light braking. In my mind after looking at them i can only attribute this too the Non perfect fitment of the discs.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Piggy - 15-10-2014
That type of squeal simply sounds like classic big brakes on a small car being cold. Builds up brake dust on leading edge and isnt cleared until warm/heavy braking. I wonder if different design of disc and make of pad would help?!
As said. Different offset wont cause that sort of squeal...esp if it happens on the standard 406 setup
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
should see the AP's on the rally saxo I service for, just fit under its 17"s.
no squealing, weighs about 900 kilos.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Dum-Dum - 15-10-2014
The 406 brembos DONT squeal on a 406. I've had one with brembos, this is a fact.
IIRC although the 306 and 406 have the same 80mm caliper bolt spacing they are a different offset to the hub face both radially and axially and this is why you cant use the 406 discs.
I'd consider using a bit of steel plate of the right thickness to make an adaptor and use either 406 305mm discs or the 302mm discs off most modern peugeots.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
yes they do, a friend has a brembo equipped 406, they squeal
its not purely the lug offset that causes the issue of fitment, its the radius.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
Guys whilst i appreciate the input, unless you have done the setup you wont understand what im saying.
Piggy i will demonstrate on saturday, you'll see where im coming from then.
Also its not a standard 406 setup at all! only bit from a 406 is the actual calipers, uses citroen xantia V6 discs which are the nearest too correct offset but still not PERFECT. This miniscule difference in offset is what i believe is causing the squealing. everything was copiously lathered in copper grease when being fitted.
Brakes that fit correctly and have been setup right shouldnt squeal. Its that simple and its now my life mission too accomplish that with mine.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Dum-Dum - 15-10-2014
(15-10-2014, 12:54 PM)welshpug Wrote: yes they do, a friend has a brembo equipped 406, they squeala) your friends car probably has issues then as I have never driven a 406 with brembos that squealed.
its not purely the lug offset that causes the issue of fitment, its the radius.
b) thats what I said the radial offset as well as the axial offset.
(15-10-2014, 12:59 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Guys whilst i appreciate the input, unless you have done the setup you wont understand what im saying.
I had:
406 brembos on a 406 coupe
406 brembos on the silver estate with a 330mm conversion.
406 brembos on the GTi6 with both pattern xantia 288mm discs and xantia 288mm G88 discs
So I know a bit about fitting them and what squeals and what doesn't.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
(15-10-2014, 01:22 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(15-10-2014, 12:54 PM)welshpug Wrote: yes they do, a friend has a brembo equipped 406, they squeala) your friends car probably has issues then as I have never driven a 406 with brembos that squealed.
its not purely the lug offset that causes the issue of fitment, its the radius.
b) thats what I said the radial offset as well as the axial offset.
(15-10-2014, 12:59 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Guys whilst i appreciate the input, unless you have done the setup you wont understand what im saying.
I had:
406 brembos on a 406 coupe
406 brembos on the silver estate with a 330mm conversion.
406 brembos on the GTi6 with both pattern xantia 288mm discs and xantia 288mm G88 discs
So I know a bit about fitting them and what squeals and what doesn't.
Your not one of the ones disagreeing with me though chris... Your input is especially appreciated. So tell me what have i got to do to stop the squeal?
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
I have fitted 406 brembos to a 306.
never again.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Niall - 15-10-2014
I remember reading years back that if you use Tarrox G88 discs with the 406 brembos (at over £200 a set
) they do not squeal. How true this is i don't know and why i don't know. Would imagine a slightly different offset.Alternatively, buy r26 brembos. Substantially better than the 406 ones and nice and silent
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
Zakk is running tarox g88 discs on his and his is noticably quieter!
What discs do you use with the r26 brembos? And are they a direct bolt on fitment?
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - welshpug - 15-10-2014
they are radial mount, you would need brackets and a suitable disc, pendulum motorsport have made these.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Niall - 15-10-2014
As Mei says, they aren't direct fit. Im using the pendulum kit which uses hi spec rotors
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Piggy - 15-10-2014
Machine the discs then to sort the offset. Prove the theory wrong/right.
Russ round the corner from Zakks place could do it
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Matt-Rallye - 15-10-2014
I wouldn't trust Russ the raging alcoholic to drill a snapped bolt
Gonna go to my mates Saturday and use all his fancy engineering kit to measure it all up to see what's what.
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - Piggy - 15-10-2014
Russ is amazing. Love that bloke. He is mental but he can build mental engines too!!
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Preparation begins! - ozonehostile - 16-10-2014
(15-10-2014, 08:02 PM)Piggy Wrote: Russ is amazing. Love that bloke. He is mental but he can build mental engines too!!
Mental, but you'll never get it back :p
(15-10-2014, 06:00 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Zakk is running tarox g88 discs on his and his is noticably quieter!
What discs do you use with the r26 brembos? And are they a direct bolt on fitment?
I am indeed using g88 discs and they still squeal but only as you come to a stop, not constant like on normal discs
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Results are in.. - Matt-Rallye - 20-10-2014
Well the rallye excelled herself yesterday on the dyno and provided me with a graph for 182.1bhp & 154.5ft/lb torque
Happy is an understatement!
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Results are in.. - Piggy - 20-10-2014
154ft lbs....cute
RE: Matts Onyx Rallye. RR Results are in.. - Matt-Rallye - 20-10-2014
If mine had a blower strapped too it....