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+--- Thread: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 (/showthread.php?tid=170)
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Ruan - 21-05-2014
Get the sodding RS head on it!!!!
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - jammapic - 21-05-2014
RS head, decent cams, and some more revs and it will push up near 190hp. Even without the cams, that head will make the world of difference mate!
(21-05-2014, 07:51 AM)welshpug Wrote:(20-05-2014, 10:33 PM)jammapic Wrote: Haha.. join the club of shit cold starts and funny idles!
That's only the case for shit cold mapping.
Go to someone who maps these day in day out and they'll get it right, you wont have any idle issues and get much better MPG, and a longer lasting engine.
Welshpug, the problem isn't shit mapping. It's low volumetic efficiency, at low rpm (made worse with bigger cams), no plenum, and fuel droplets clinging to the inside of the trumpets and bodies when they are very cold.... but I am sure you knew that.
Sam, don't worry about having to give it some revs to start, and letting it warm up etc... you get used to it. The noise makes up for it eh?
JP
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Dum-Dum - 21-05-2014
Video of the noise please Sam?
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 21-05-2014
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Dum-Dum - 21-05-2014
THAT SOUNDS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!
SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Ben Jay - 21-05-2014
It's even better in person! Haha
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - welshpug - 21-05-2014
(21-05-2014, 10:19 AM)jammapic Wrote: Welshpug, the problem isn't shit mapping. It's low volumetic efficiency, at low rpm (made worse with bigger cams), no plenum, and fuel droplets clinging to the inside of the trumpets and bodies when they are very cold
care to explain why every engine a particular mapper I have experience of has done idles perfectly when stone cold then?
Sam, I would highly recommend uploading to yotube, Photobucket is wank and compresses the videos so the quality is rather poor.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Tom - 21-05-2014
Well done mate that sounds maaaaaaaadddd!
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - zx_volcane - 21-05-2014
bwaaarrrrrp
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 21-05-2014
Not bad is it!
I havent driven it since driving back from the mapping. Might have to pop out tonight for a play.Need to get a barb to tap the inlet manifold with in order to get a vacuum for the brakes. On Sunday Sam Bates will be coming over and we will be sorting out the PAS.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Matt-Rallye - 21-05-2014
nice one on getting it all sorted
epic bwarps
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Niall - 21-05-2014
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Barbed-Threaded-BSP-Fittings-Male-BSPT-Hose-Tail-Brass-/321389216871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item4ad44a4467
Drill, tap, done!
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - jammapic - 21-05-2014
Precisely Niall!
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 21-05-2014
Videos changed to youtube. Cheers for the comments guys
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - welshpug - 21-05-2014
very good
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - powerandtorque - 22-05-2014
Well done for getting it done in time as you really didn't make it easy for yourself!
It's a shame that you didn't get chance to get it in its finished state with the RS head and cams prior to mapping, as there's little doubt that the 1.8 items will be massively holding it back as it stands - when you remove the 1.8 head take a look at the inlet ports and you'll see exactly why I say that!
I don't see why you shouldn't see similar power figures to a GTi-6 when its done as fundementally power is just a function of airflow and revs. You'll be down a bit torque wise though due to the lower capacity.
From memory, the RS headed XU7 engine Welshpug mentioned was around 160hp and 125lbft. That was an XU7 bottom end, RS head/cams/manifolds and the cam timing advanced, so you should see a stronger mid-range in particular with ITB's. The map that was on it was pretty poor as well to be honest - I ended up getting involved sorting it out and we were seeing some noticeable improvements honing the ignition map when it blew a coolant hose on the rollers.
Those that are saying that you could have got similar results from a TD with the fuel cranked up are missing the point by a countly mile - the noise, response and crispness of a (well mapped!) engine on ITB's is in a different league frankly.
Get the loose ends finished up and enjoy it while you get all the RS bits ready for a swap and re-map sometime in the future
Bwwaaarrrpp!
(21-05-2014, 10:19 AM)jammapic Wrote: Welshpug, the problem isn't shit mapping. It's low volumetic efficiency, at low rpm (made worse with bigger cams), no plenum, and fuel droplets clinging to the inside of the trumpets and bodies when they are very cold.... but I am sure you knew that.
As per Welshpug's comments, it's easy enough to get an engine on ITB's to start on the button and little nicely from cold, but it does tend to need a bit of tinkering and trial and error to get it right - you only get one or two chances a day to try it after all.
A general mapper without much experience of a particular engine is always going to struggle to get the settings for a cold start correct and can only really take an educated guess which inevitably won't be quite right - that's no surprise of course, as it's the sort of thing that takes the OEM's months to perfect and sign off on the original management.
A mapper who specialises in a particular engine type is likely to have experience to get the cold start values much closer to optimal. Sandy Brown is the obvious one that springs to mind for Peugeot XU and TU engines - certainly the XU's I've experienced or had mapped by him have cold started very well (indeed, I would wholeheartedly recommend him for mapping work)
I've sorted out the cold start on DTA's and Emerald's personally, so I do have some experience in this rather than regurgitating second hand info like many. ITB's I actually find easier than plenums to get a nice idle as you don't have the pulses from long duration cams screwing everything up.
That's the one big disadvantage with having the original management mapped like you have James, in that the settings are fixed and you can't tweek them yourself to perfect things like the cold start whereas it's very easy to change (if a little harder to get right!) on most aftermarket management, stuff like Weber Alpha excluded of course.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 22-05-2014
Cheers for the info. I have no doubt that this will be in a different league with a a better head and exhaust setup. Maybe I'll be able to find some nice lairy cams for it.
Having this mid point stage where the car is at the moment is good as it keeps me interested in the car and gives me more time to get things right.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 27-05-2014
Drove to Liverpool and back this weekend and the car ran fine. When I started it in the morning a delivery driver came and spoke to me saying it sounded rough and asking why i bothered to fit throttlebodies when i could have just put a higher octane fuel in it. Apparently he had a golf and had had the head skimmed in order to give it higher compression and more power D:
Anyway once I escaped from him and got back to Suffolk Sam came round and gave me a new PAS pump which already had the inlet elbow rotate and amazingly even had the PAS relocation pipe. Had to reuse one of my bolts and crush washer from my new piping but that saved a bit of time and effort.
The relocation kit reuses a lot of the original pipes. It was stupidly easy to do and wouldnt have taken long at all to do if I had have been motivated to do it.
![[Image: IMG_20140526_181010_zps49aecfqu.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140526_181010_zps49aecfqu.jpg)
The pump Niall brought me is definitely newer so ill be rotating the elbow on that and keeping it as a spare. Spot the differences?
![[Image: IMG_20140526_161340_zpszcrzvox0.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140526_161340_zpszcrzvox0.jpg)
Brakes still arent assisted as I didnt have a 3/8 inch tapping bit to tap the manifold.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Toms306 - 27-05-2014
Good result Sam.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - 7057sam - 27-05-2014
Good to see it was such a easy and straight forward job
Had a funny feeling that pas came off the f*cked engine I first had which was a supercharged engine which had the same PAS setup as you.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 27-05-2014
I think it must be a phase 2 pump or something as the pump isnt as new and is a slightly different design. Still works though
Went to the shops quickly this evening. if you brake with the car still in gear and bring the revs down to about 1.5k it does some dirty little pops
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - lolsteve - 27-05-2014
Any idea what the Zr had done to it?
Sounds great though with the bodies, power seems a bit lacking but at least you know what's holding you back rather than being stumped and unhappy with the results
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 28-05-2014
(27-05-2014, 11:32 PM)lolsteve Wrote: Any idea what the Zr had done to it?
Sounds great though with the bodies, power seems a bit lacking but at least you know what's holding you back rather than being stumped and unhappy with the results
it was a prototype works MG ZR with a front end i hadnt seen before. It would have been the new model before MG went bust. The man who owner it was old and his wife used it for racing. It had been mapped for 232hp at a previous mappers but it was running properly lean so the new map was only 202hp. It had a full works cage and an epic gearbox which was whining away the whole time. it was one of those rally style ones where it only goes forward or back.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - cjm_harris - 28-05-2014
(28-05-2014, 11:05 AM)SRowell Wrote: and an epic gearbox which was whining away the whole time. it was one of those rally style ones where it only goes forward or back.
^ This made me chuckle for some reason.
The "whining" aspect is those gearboxes are made with straight cut gears rather than helical (ie, in a standard gearbox the forward gears are helical and reverse is straight cut I believe).
But then they have no syncro's etc too, dog engagement?
The up up, down down is called a sequential gearbox.
HTH
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Dum-Dum - 28-05-2014
LOL I laughed at that too but didnt want to make sam feel stupid.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Midnightclub - 28-05-2014
Remember someone telling me before there 1.6 CVH escort had a gearbox with straight cut gears, because it whined, I just said it was f*cked. called bullshit and 3 days later the box exploded all over the road..
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 02-06-2014
So the weekend before FCS I had lots of things to do. Sam came over and we got the car up and started stripping out all the air con!
![[Image: IMG_20140601_160942_zpsfpmbopkz.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140601_160942_zpsfpmbopkz.jpg)
All for the bin!
![[Image: IMG-20140601-WA0004_zpsyhtc2okj.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG-20140601-WA0004_zpsyhtc2okj.jpg)
so much more room for activities!
and the slimline fan went on! Not wired in... but at least itll work if it is wired!
![[Image: IMG_20140601_163440_zpshybdmcuo.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140601_163440_zpshybdmcuo.jpg)
And then I drilled a hole in the bodies in order to get a brake vacuum. I now have working brakes! Although they are a bit spongey they are a million times better than no assistance!
![[Image: IMG_20140601_184046_zpszldg3qjb.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140601_184046_zpszldg3qjb.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_20140601_184031_zps9rltdegi.jpg]](http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/srowell3/IMG_20140601_184031_zps9rltdegi.jpg)
So now for the first time since fitting the bodies i have both working power steering and brakes and can start enjoying the car again. I also wired up the speedo so I can see how it pulls now and the answer is surprisingly well! 2 hours on track at FCS should be interesting!
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - powerandtorque - 02-06-2014
Would be worth looking at lowering the radiator down a bit if you can - the bodies breathing hot air off the back of the radiator really won't be helping power. If you've a laptop, look at the live values for air temp as you drive along and you'll probably be seeing 50-60 degrees odd which should drop to near ambient with a lowered radiator.
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - 7057sam - 02-06-2014
Nice bit of progress they sam
That aircon pipe was a bastard and had to lol at the quick release cable tied bumper
RE: SRowells Diablo 1.8 - Jenvey 45s & OMEX600 - Eeyore - 02-06-2014
That front bumper is even worse now... Its only got one bolt on each side holding it on. Its got such a panel gap its unbelievable! D:
Tonight I bought all the connectors, conduit and tape to tidy up all the wiring in the engine bay. Hopefully that will all arrive so I can have a bash at it on Friday morning!