+- 306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: General (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: The Couch (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! (/showthread.php?tid=5051)
Pages:
1
2
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - puglove - 23-07-2012
(23-07-2012, 12:03 PM)Ed Doe Wrote: Same thing. But even less point in supecharger and bodies, as there isn't any lag with a supercharger anyway...
And this is why S/C is win
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - 4WayDiablo - 23-07-2012
(23-07-2012, 08:54 AM)ginge191 Wrote:(23-07-2012, 08:49 AM)mark_airey Wrote: This "next bit" better contain the words "Turbo" & "Charger" otherwise I will be disappointed
EFA
You say that but have you ever heard a 6 on bodies? That will make you think twice
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - cwspellowe - 23-07-2012
Out of interest, how are they timing the cams? PT81's are chuffing close when it comes to valve/piston contact and i've seen people in the past fitting the cams slightly retarded to overcome clearance issues. All it takes is a heavy head skim in an unknown service history and it's bye bye valves.
Never cammed my GTI6 for this exact reason, a PT80 or similar is hardly worth the effort for the gains but PT81 and above gets a bit brown trouser-esque when you first crank the engine over.
Sure from what I read the PT81's are too close for comfort to time properly? Again if so, defeats the purpose of fitting the cams as you get higher lift but the timing's out. If all done properly though then get on it!
Just don't come on saying the next mod is a posted throttle body or i'll cry
Knew it
russian guy on the gti6 forum Wrote:Firstly, what a lot of people do not realise when fitting performance cams you time them from the manufactures spec and not standard timing mars.
So, PT81s will work fine on standard timing marks, but won’t make full power as they need to be advanced relative to the marks. When timed correctly – it is highly likely that they will touch the pistons (there were marks of piston to valve contact in my engine).
If you want to know the exact measurements for particular engine – you have to do dry build and measure it.
The standard inlet cam has about 0.8mm lift at TDC vs 1.64mm for PT81. So you would need to deepen the cutouts by about 1mm to keep the same amount of clearance as standard. Which is what was done on my engine by Martin, (CRF450).
Of course, in ideal case I would deepen the cutouts a bit more and get the head skimmed to up the compression ratio slightly from standard to compensate for the material removal from pistons and work with increased duration of the cams...
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - puglove - 23-07-2012
Sounds scary cwspellowe , sooo glade i didnt go down this route
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 23-07-2012
cams are in and its been driven 15miles since then, boyf fitted them said same as you guys if timing is even slightly out were screwed but its all good and running sweet! next mod is secret.....hence ninja plans only a select few know......
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - cwspellowe - 23-07-2012
Right but are they timed up to standard timing marks? If so you're not using them to the full potential. Russian Guy has been there, done that, and I trust him when he says the correct timing marks will likely need pocketed pistons.
Just seems a bit daft fitting cams and then retarding the timing, that's all...
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Ed Doe - 23-07-2012
I get what you mean Chris, but its entirely possible to see some good gains from the cams on a stock engine. there are plenty of cammed 6s running around the 190-200hp mark, and with bodies around 210-220 is possible.
its obviously not perfect as you aren't using the cams to their full potential, but as far as mild engine tuning goes its certainly an attractive option imo...
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - cwspellowe - 23-07-2012
Absolutely Ed, what I mean is the PT81's are good for up to around 200bhp but if they're being run retarded the torque curve will be screwed. NA engines aren't great for torque as they are but if you start retarding the timing they go really flat up to about 5krpm.
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Ed Doe - 23-07-2012
I don't know of were agreeing about the same thing now lol! the power figures I just quoted were although pocketed pistons as far as I know... Could be wrong though...
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tsotd - 23-07-2012
(23-07-2012, 08:05 PM)tachagti6 Wrote: cams are in and its been driven 15miles since then, boyf fitted them said same as you guys if timing is even slightly out were screwed but its all good and running sweet! next mod is secret.....hence ninja plans only a select few know......
great to hear
just a reminder that the limiter is alot higher than standard so watch them revs or else your see some engine damage
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 23-07-2012
so im being called daft....thanks you know how to compliment a girl! Appreciate the advice but its running exactly how the guy that i bought it from was running, i want a little extra power im not into making the most out of everything. as long as it doesnt blow up im happy :-)
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Dum-Dum - 23-07-2012
Does it feel faster?
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - cwspellowe - 23-07-2012
Wait hold on, I didn't call anyone daft specifically. What I said was it seems daft to be content with not using cams how they're designed. They're a fair chunk of money to not set up properly.
In my eyes it's like fitting a big turbo with 1.5" boost pipes, or having a boob job and never playing with them in front of the mirror.
Wait.. what?
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 23-07-2012
i dont know i havnt driven it yet! its not taxed we took it off the road whilst being done as tax ran out anyway, graham drive it to and from workshop on trade plates
they cost £200 its not that much and i dont pay for fitting :-) im quite happy how they are im not anal enough to spend my evening worrying about squeezing another 5bhp from something, more important things to worry about. its still gonna be cool and ill still be a rather happy girl when its all finished :-)
oh and pointless talking about boost pipes, wasted on me i have no idea what your on about :-)
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - cwspellowe - 23-07-2012
That's not too bad, thought they were more like £450.
Listen don't get me wrong, if you're happy then fair play.
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tsotd - 23-07-2012
your find that it will feel alittle sluggish up till around 3.5k then take off like mad....
if your still running the OE ecu your find that the idle may be alittle lumpish, around 0.2k
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 23-07-2012
there second hand bought off someone on here hence price, and yea tsotd other half said it feels sluggish down low but with next mod and the stand alone ecu thats going on I should have muchos power all round!!!
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - 4WayDiablo - 23-07-2012
(23-07-2012, 09:03 PM)cwspellowe Wrote: In my eyes it's like fitting a big turbo with 1.5" boost pipes,
you say that but its less system to pressurise to the intercooler cutting down on lag and so on :-) its not all bad
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - mark_airey - 23-07-2012
(23-07-2012, 10:09 PM)4WayDiablo Wrote: you say that but its less system to pressurise to the intercooler cutting down on lag and so on :-) its not all bad
But nowhere near enough flow for a big turbo thus loosing you power
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Connor - 23-07-2012
Nothing to add really, just wanted to wave my e-penis too...
*waves e-penis*
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Ruan - 23-07-2012
It really winds me up when people go on about boost piping inducing loads of lag... I can almost guarantee you could go from 2" to 3.5" and ask most people to drive it, they wouldn't be able to tell a difference... The amount of air an engine consumes and the amount of air a turbocharger puts out, you're talking kinda 400cfm.... I'd say the entire piping, intercooler, manifold etc is maybe at absolute maximum 1.5cubic feet - that's 42 litres... At 400cfm that'd take around 1/6th of a second to fill....
A 2.0 Diesel engine (admittedly at 100%VE) is inducting 35.16 cubic feet per minute already.... That's IDLING.... When you think of the VE increase at high RPMs, then with a turbocharger... You can do the maths!
It's simply not discernable to most people... It's poorly sized turbos and people not understanding A/R that makes turbos laggy...
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Dum-Dum - 23-07-2012
Tasha are you gonna run it for a bit with the cams before the ECU goes on cos if you are will you take me out in it at a meet so I can see if I want a set.
(23-07-2012, 10:40 PM)Ruan Wrote: It really winds me up when people go on about boost piping inducing loads of lag... I can almost guarantee you could go from 2" to 3.5" and ask most people to drive it, they wouldn't be able to tell a difference... The amount of air an engine consumes and the amount of air a turbocharger puts out, you're talking kinda 400cfm.... I'd say the entire piping, intercooler, manifold etc is maybe at absolute maximum 1.5cubic feet - that's 42 litres... At 400cfm that'd take around 1/6th of a second to fill....
A 2.0 Diesel engine (admittedly at 100%VE) is inducting 35.16 cubic feet per minute already....
It's simply not discernable to most people... It's poorly sized turbos and people not understanding A/R that makes turbos laggy...
Agreed.
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Matt - 23-07-2012
Tash, I shot gun all the bits if you eventually sell
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 24-07-2012
No I'm not running it as is, rest of the bits are going on at the weekend and then tax then ill be going to hindhead tunnel!!
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - puglove - 24-07-2012
Wel dum has pretty much given the game away, i take he talking about stand alone. And he might want a SET so its obv bodies then
Good call i really did want a set of bodies its such an epic noise. Just a charger kit came up at the right price. I would like to try a set on it some day
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - tachagti6 - 24-07-2012
Sssshhhhhh its a secret...well was supposed to be lol pics up soon excited much!!!!!
RE: GTI6 Ninja plans in full swing EEEKK!!! - Dum-Dum - 24-07-2012
(24-07-2012, 09:19 AM)puglove Wrote: Wel dum has pretty much given the game away
I only mentioned things Tacha had put in this thread.