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+--- Thread: better handeling, what do i need. (/showthread.php?tid=2681)
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
Niall Wrote:Sorry but it really doesn't. Only thing you have over me now is tyres.....well until it gets wet!
People seem to think that the stiffer the better and that's only true in one aspect of life and it's not handling!
Even now if I push them tyres I will keep up around "the roundabout"!
Tbh it's personal opinion. As I said, IMO for a daily drive, eBay coils are far to stiff.
Ok buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night
Try dropping yours from tractor height, then we will have a covering contest
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Ricky - 09-04-2012
When I come to sort my handling, it will most probably be staying standard height. Like my suspension travel.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
True. This is why I don't understand people who put stiffer springs on eBay coilies. You will just loose it when you corner hard.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
I would not put harder spring on eBay coils. They're hard enough ffs! Lol
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
Grant, despite what the max power generation has taught us, ride height makes barely any difference to handling (unless of course you go to the extreme of having a A class!)
If these eBay coilovers are so good for epic handling, why don't race cars use them?
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
Niall Wrote:Grant, despite what the max power generation has taught us, ride height makes barely any difference to handling (unless of course you go to the extreme of having a A class!)
If these eBay coilovers are so good for epic handling, why don't race cars use them?
I'm not sayin they do, I doubt they use bilstein b4's with the chassis 9 inches from the ground either. I'd put £50 on my car beating yours round a corner with a sensible beam on it....
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying eBay coils are the best out there, but people making un-educated statements of them being shit grinds on me.
Anyway, mine aren't cheap eBay ones, they're v-maxx blaaaaaaaaaap
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Ricky - 09-04-2012
I think comparing to proper race cars is a bit far-fetched to be honest, they have setups that are nothing like what we use on the road.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
No your correct they won't use b4s.
It gets on my tits that people seem to think they can bolt on some cheap coils and crappy rear shocks and away they go. Simply not true. There is a large amount of tuning needed but this of course depends on the surface you will be using the car on!
Think we're moving away from the point of this thread but I will say that I do think you should try a car with eBay coils if possible. I know for a fact that grants might as well just have welded shocks but I have also heard of people having eBay coils and they wallow horrendously! Seems that the makers are a lot like Peugeot and use what they have to hand at the time!
Simple thing is, coilies for adjustable height, or bilsteins/standard shocks or similar for a shock that will more than likely outlast the coilies but you loose the height adjustability.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
i had a ride im marias rallye (when she had it on raceland) and literally got out and got into marks (on gaz gha's iirc)
and the difference was amazing
put simply you get what you pay for, those racelands though wherent as bad as everyone makes out to be, theyre stiff yeah but dont "handle" as well as the gaz setup mark had at the time, his would piss easy outhandle most cars on this forum
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Rippthrough - 09-04-2012
Grant Wrote:Maybe try some strut braces too, I fitted my ripp one earlier and it had completely transformed the drive...
Wait until you see the matching uppers
Do make a fair difference to the steering and mid-corner grip though.
Don't worry too much about vibration from the mounts, they'll be fine, your not driving one of those clonky old clattering diesels so there's not as much engine vibration to worry about.
Don't upgrade the front arb unless you do the rear at the same time. Personally, if you're putting it on stiffer, lower springs, I wouldn't bother upgrading the front arb at all (I don't even run one these days)
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
4WayDiablo Wrote:i had a ride im marias rallye (when she had it on raceland) and literally got out and got into marks (on gaz gha's iirc)
and the difference was amazing
put simply you get what you pay for, those racelands though wherent as bad as everyone makes out to be, theyre stiff yeah but dont "handle" as well as the gaz setup mark had at the time, his would piss easy outhandle most cars on this forum
Yeah but you also need to remember that marks has a lot of work. Different bushes, different tyres and different camber (think he's running adjustable top mounts isn't he)
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
i aint got millions of £'s to spend. so its either b4's or cheap coilovers. just bought a 6 arb. :dance:
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
Niall Wrote:he wasnt at the time4WayDiablo Wrote:i had a ride im marias rallye (when she had it on raceland) and literally got out and got into marks (on gaz gha's iirc)
and the difference was amazing
put simply you get what you pay for, those racelands though wherent as bad as everyone makes out to be, theyre stiff yeah but dont "handle" as well as the gaz setup mark had at the time, his would piss easy outhandle most cars on this forum
Yeah but you also need to remember that marks has a lot of work. Different bushes, different tyres and different camber (think he's running adjustable top mounts isn't he)
what i KNOW he was running the ghs's but with standard topmounts and bushes
he was running a 6arb though iirc
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
kingy Wrote:i aint got millions of £'s to spend. so its either b4's or cheap coilovers. just bought a 6 arb. :dance:
Good man. That will make a difference! Remember you need the bigger bushes but there only about 8 quid from ecp
Personally id go for b4s. Bilstein are a very good make but as I said, if you can, try a car with the ebays!
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
are the b4's adjustasable?
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
go b6 or b8
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
dont phil, please dont.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
haha sorry
get some eibach springs if you go the billy route
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
:angry-banghead:
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Rippthrough - 09-04-2012
Do the wishbones/bushes first.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Niall - 09-04-2012
kingy Wrote:are the b4's adjustasable?
No there not. Neither are the ebays other than ride height obviously.
As ripp said, bushes made a huge difference on mine before I did the shocks!
better handeling, what do i need. - kentiiboii - 09-04-2012
Niall Wrote:kingy Wrote:i aint got millions of £'s to spend. so its either b4's or cheap coilovers. just bought a 6 arb. :dance:
Good man. That will make a difference! Remember you need the bigger bushes but there only about 8 quid from ecp
Personally id go for b4s. Bilstein are a very good make but as I said, if you can, try a car with the ebays!
He can try mine should be done by next MFN hopefully. As long as weather picks up so I can spray my wheels.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - kingy - 09-04-2012
Rippthrough Wrote:Do the wishbones/bushes first.getting everything i need then sending of to my mate who is the master at fixing anything so it will all be done together. just need to sort out the front and then look at changing the rear axle.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Atterz - 09-04-2012
B8s are the way forward, went out in a car today with said suspension and 21mm bars on the rear and it outhandled mine in the wet no bother
. And 6 ARB, dont bother, as Phil said just improve the suspension in other ways and enjoy the extra grip without the 6 ARB.
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
Niall Wrote:No your correct they won't use b4s.
It gets on my tits that people seem to think they can bolt on some cheap coils and crappy rear shocks and away they go. Simply not true. There is a large amount of tuning needed but this of course depends on the surface you will be using the car on!
Think we're moving away from the point of this thread but I will say that I do think you should try a car with eBay coils if possible. I know for a fact that grants might as well just have welded shocks but I have also heard of people having eBay coils and they wallow horrendously! Seems that the makers are a lot like Peugeot and use what they have to hand at the time!
Simple thing is, coilies for adjustable height, or bilsteins/standard shocks or similar for a shock that will more than likely outlast the coilies but you loose the height adjustability.
So you have not accepted my wager there? It still stands buddy.... With an audience....
Just to prove a point Yes my shocks may be stiff, and yes they are not race spec, but please explain to me what is to bad about them?
What makes spending £££ on brands better?
What large amount of tuning has your car undergone to make it better than any other? As you say above...
Why are adjustable coilovers worse? Straight answer please......
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
go out in a car with racelands then get out and go in a car with gha's or similar, youll notice the difference
im not saying theyre bad because theyre not its just the gha's are better in almost every way, they way they ride is much better
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
TBF i went out in marks car and wasnt that impressed. Yes it was solid around corners, but no more so than any other 306. I did lose a few fillings however.
Im not saying ebay coils will compare to GAZ golds, dont get me wrong. But i cannot see the comparison lower down the price spectrum....
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - 4WayDiablo - 09-04-2012
But i cannot see the comparison lower down the price spectrum
how do you mean? you cant see the justification in double the price?
Re: better handeling, what do i need. - Grant - 09-04-2012
No, if you have the dollar, then why not. If i had it I would spends lots on my car lol....
But what makes B4's better than v-maxx?
Specifications and technical details to be specific, to take it back to my original point....