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+--- Thread: intercooler (/showthread.php?tid=2355)
Re: intercooler - Dave - 22-03-2012
If you get the right turbo for the job in the first place there should be no need for an intercooler at all in theory. Your not stretching the turbo to produce heat. Just so happens we all use petrol turbos and push them to 2 bar so they heat like mad. So we just bang up the boost even more to compensate. There is no right or wrong here because one turbo will be on boost and fill fmic piping way before another and one turbo will boil way before another.
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
I suppose the thing is cost though. If done right, the FMIC can be done quite cheap to help temps instead of a turbo inside its efficiency range at these kind of boost levels. Though depends if your good at ebaying and finding cheap turbos
Re: intercooler - Megamonkey - 22-03-2012
Pfft whats all this intercooler rubbish .... What about charge cooling ...
*runs away*
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
Matty Wrote:I suppose the thing is cost though. If done right, the FMIC can be done quite cheap to help temps instead of a turbo inside its efficiency range at these kind of boost levels. Though depends if your good at ebaying and finding cheap turbos
Free FMIC in exchange for some work and TD04 for £34
only thing I really spent anything on was the pipework to join it all together 
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
Dave Wrote:If you get the right turbo for the job in the first place there should be no need for an intercooler at all in theory. Your not stretching the turbo to produce heat. Just so happens we all use petrol turbos and push them to 2 bar so they heat like mad. So we just bang up the boost even more to compensate. There is no right or wrong here because one turbo will be on boost and fill fmic piping way before another and one turbo will boil way before another.
How would that work? Surely all turbo's are squeezing the air, making it hotter, regardless of how big they are? One thing I did notice though, is that the IC and turbo really seem to restrict VERY low down power/torque! When I drove my car with no intake pipes (just EGR and mani) it pulled much better up hill at idle...and it sounded epic lol!!
Oh and on another note......SMICs FTW.
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
Toms306 Wrote:How would that work? Surely all turbo's are squeezing the air, making it hotter, regardless of how big they are?
Oh and on another note......SMICs FTW.
Yes but if you spend money on decent turbo that is well within it's efficiency range then it will produce far less heat than say a TD04 at 35ish PSI which might be slightly out of its efficiency range
And your "side mount I/C" is still at the front! be pretty pointless if it was actually on the side, like mounted to the door and it would look daft
Re: intercooler - n0v0s - 22-03-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Matty Wrote:rofl.
Well I'm not sure what I can do to help, because I have not encountered the problem majorly.
Well I guess if you suffer from bad charge temps...the answers are obvious aren't they really. FMIC/Meths.
"intense boost" ... confused?
What psi are you yet atm?
my whole build is a low end build at the moment; any extension of any boost hoses will only result in slight lag. im running 18 at the moment... going to have a fiddle with the turbo over the summer as i've got more fuel to give..
hock: 18psi is 'intense' boost?!
You don't know what heat soak is until you experience a k14 on 37psi+ ..proper hairdryer
Experience being the key word, i.e. Not being funny, but maybe stop regurgitating shite you may have heard from other people who may have heard..who may have heard..?
Tmic is decent, if you keep boost sensible. Doesn't matter which turdo you have, aslong as its working within it's reasonable efficiency island.. Fmic is surely better, with its increased airflow and increased volume potential..
Want to experiment, then log the charge temps for both after a gd rag. Only proper way to conclusively and accurately know.
My opinion is that water injection on a tmic would be more than adequate, for me, temp logs i've seen support my theory.
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:Toms306 Wrote:How would that work? Surely all turbo's are squeezing the air, making it hotter, regardless of how big they are?
Oh and on another note......SMICs FTW.
Yes but if you spend money on decent turbo that is well within it's efficiency range then it will produce far less heat than say a TD04 at 35ish PSI which might be slightly out of its efficiency range
And your "side mount I/C" is still at the front! be pretty pointless if it was actually on the side, like mounted to the door and it would look daft
This is EXACTLY what I've tried explaining to people lol!! I've got a larger SMIC instead of FMIC and most people are like 'thats pointless get an FMIC' :roll: I'll bet I can still make over 180bhp on it.
I still don't get the turbo thing though, OK it'll produce LESS heat, but surely still hotter than ambient temp so you'd still want an IC, albeit a smaller one. :think:
Re: intercooler - n0v0s - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:Toms306 Wrote:How would that work? Surely all turbo's are squeezing the air, making it hotter, regardless of how big they are?
Oh and on another note......SMICs FTW.
Yes but if you spend money on decent turbo that is well within it's efficiency range then it will produce far less heat than say a TD04 at 35ish PSI which might be slightly out of its efficiency range
And your "side mount I/C" is still at the front! be pretty pointless if it was actually on the side, like mounted to the door and it would look daft
Bingo!
However, the words 'spend money' and 306 don't often go together on here, do they?
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
^^ lol, see my previous post about my setup
Toms306 Wrote:This is EXACTLY what I've tried explaining to people lol!! I've got a larger SMIC instead of FMIC and most people are like 'thats pointless get an FMIC' :roll: I'll bet I can still make over 180bhp on it.
I still don't get the turbo thing though, OK it'll produce LESS heat, but surely still hotter than ambient temp so you'd still want an IC, albeit a smaller one. :think:
Its still at the front and its still in the air flow, it should work perfectly fine IMO,
Turbo's don't really make much heat until they get out of their efficiency range and then it ramps up fairly quickly! the HDi doesn't have any I/C as standard remember as the turbo is well within range!
Re: intercooler - 4WayDiablo - 22-03-2012
I like turbos
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
4WayDiablo Wrote:I like turbos
Still on spamming form I see Phill
Re: intercooler - 4WayDiablo - 22-03-2012
Haha i thought id just lighten the mood a bit
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:Free FMIC in exchange for some work and TD04 for £34
Now that is awesome! Yea, they can be done fairly cheaply which is pretty cool for lower temps I suppose!
Re: intercooler - n0v0s - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:^^ lol, see my previous post about my setup
Yeah it can be done very well for amazingly little money as you've proved. I gone +1 better for not much more, project thread soon
<-- fkin love this ninja!
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:Turbo's don't really make much heat until they get out of their efficiency range and then it ramps up fairly quickly! the HDi doesn't have any I/C as standard remember as the turbo is well within range!
I thought the lack of IC was what made the HDi shit lol.......I mean, 2 litres and only 90bhp!? :o Or is it just a rubbish map as standard?
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
You scare me Tom.
:think:
Re: intercooler - silverzx - 22-03-2012
Toms306 Wrote:mark_airey Wrote:Turbo's don't really make much heat until they get out of their efficiency range and then it ramps up fairly quickly! the HDi doesn't have any I/C as standard remember as the turbo is well within range!
I thought the lack of IC was what made the HDi shit lol.......I mean, 2 litres and only 90bhp!? :o Or is it just a rubbish map as standard?
It's a reliable map that will allow the engine to go on for 250,000 miles.
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
silverzx Wrote:It's a reliable map that will allow the engine to go on for 250,000 miles.
Pfft...reliable but boring.....Peugeot only warrantied them for 30k or something anyway lol, why bother with 250k. :think:
I know its partly to do with emmisions too, and the turbo is pretty small so its not laggy and is good for town driving (but who buys a DERV to drive round town anyway!?) but still, 90bhp from a 2 litre engine is damn poor imo!
Re: intercooler - Poodle - 22-03-2012
Erm, I notice the heatsoak on standard boost, so dread to think what it'd be like on 30psi. That said, it's perfectly possible my car has a problem that i don't yet know about, which just so happens to result in diminishing power as engine temp goes up... :roll:
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
Poodle Wrote:Erm, I notice the heatsoak on standard boost, so dread to think what it'd be like on 30psi. That said, it's perfectly possible my car has a problem that i don't yet know about, which just so happens to result in diminishing power as engine temp goes up... :roll:
Well unlucky for you. :roll:
Re: intercooler - brettw1 - 22-03-2012
wish i never started this lol just took me ages to read it
quite funny towards the end lol
Re: intercooler - mark_airey - 22-03-2012
Toms306 Wrote:silverzx Wrote:It's a reliable map that will allow the engine to go on for 250,000 miles.
Pfft...reliable but boring.....Peugeot only warrantied them for 30k or something anyway lol, why bother with 250k. :think:
I know its partly to do with emmisions too, and the turbo is pretty small so its not laggy and is good for town driving (but who buys a DERV to drive round town anyway!?) but still, 90bhp from a 2 litre engine is damn poor imo!
TBH 90bhp from a 2 litre engine isn't that bad, look at the Americans and their 4 & 5 litre V8 engines making 200bhp
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
mark_airey Wrote:Toms306 Wrote:Pfft...reliable but boring.....Peugeot only warrantied them for 30k or something anyway lol, why bother with 250k. :think:
I know its partly to do with emmisions too, and the turbo is pretty small so its not laggy and is good for town driving (but who buys a DERV to drive round town anyway!?) but still, 90bhp from a 2 litre engine is damn poor imo!
TBH 90bhp from a 2 litre engine isn't that bad, look at the Americans and their 4 & 5 litre V8 engines making 200bhp
True but that's partly due to their rubbish cheap petrol lol.......plus I don't think Peugeot is American! :think:
Also look at vag diesels from the same time.....150 from a 1.9 engine for example....still meets emmisions regs and does better mpg too! And even they look crap by todays standards.......like the new ford ecoboosts - 125bhp and 56mpg from a 1.6 petrol! :o
Re: intercooler - Niall - 22-03-2012
Yeah but tom, Vag engines don't sound like these big American engines!
Oh and look at the new ds4-r engine. 1.6 turbo petrol. 260bhp and still almost 40mpg! Want one!!!
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 22-03-2012
Niall Wrote:Yeah but tom, VAGaygay engines don't sound like these big American engines!
Oh and look at the new ds4-r engine. 1.6 turbo petrol. 260bhp and still almost 40mpg! Want one!!!
Comparing pd to hdi lol, not to a nice v8 !
But I totally agree with the second part, engine technology is moving real quick now.
Re: intercooler - Matty - 22-03-2012
Toms306 Wrote:True but that's partly due to their rubbish cheap petrol lol.
![[Image: lolwut.gif]](http://static.tsrfiles.co.uk/images/smilies/lolwut.gif)
Re: intercooler - Toms306 - 23-03-2012
Matty Wrote:Toms306 Wrote:True but that's partly due to their rubbish cheap petrol lol.
Petrol over there is much lower octanw than ours, so compression ratios have to he lower to avoid pre igniton. Also, they don't care about mpg because fuel is so cheap anyway...hence massive engines with little power.
Re: intercooler - Matty - 23-03-2012
While that's a knock down to there progress, it clearly isn't a huge leapfall, as they have produced high horsepower car's.
Lower compression ratio is not like a guaranteed, you won't make high power thing O_O
Re: intercooler - n0v0s - 23-03-2012
:roll: