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+--- Thread: Revived; TMIC cooling options (/showthread.php?tid=11214)
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RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - 4WayDiablo - 19-07-2013
Y U No fmic?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Ben Jay - 19-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 09:56 AM)ginge191 Wrote: Ok, so i'm reviving this with a slightly different title.
I'm noticing BAD heat soak and related boosting issues with the lack of cooling to the TMIC.
Possibly a bonnet lining would suffice? but would prefer an alternative; i know the scoops are an option; a grinder and a vent isn't too hard to install, but visually a bit gash.
I understand that a couple of mist jets could be of use also; but how much do they/can they actually cool the TMIC.
Any other ideas would be awesome!
why dont you try and improve the lining?
use some sheet metal instead of the crappy carpet stuff it ususally has?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 19-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 10:06 AM)Ben Jay Wrote:(19-07-2013, 09:56 AM)ginge191 Wrote: Ok, so i'm reviving this with a slightly different title.
I'm noticing BAD heat soak and related boosting issues with the lack of cooling to the TMIC.
Possibly a bonnet lining would suffice? but would prefer an alternative; i know the scoops are an option; a grinder and a vent isn't too hard to install, but visually a bit gash.
I understand that a couple of mist jets could be of use also; but how much do they/can they actually cool the TMIC.
Any other ideas would be awesome!
why dont you try and improve the lining?
use some sheet metal instead of the crappy carpet stuff it ususally has?
Hmm interesting; similar setup to how the ITB induction has
![[Image: SNC00520.jpg]](http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/meligopoulos/SNC00520.jpg)
But it's quite a farse to put together i'd think; fining anywhere sufficient to bolt it down to.. Unless, it's attached to the bonnet underneath.. hmm...
(19-07-2013, 10:02 AM)4WayDiablo Wrote: Y U No fmic?
not needed expense/lag.
never been a huge fan of frount mounts. heh. pun.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - 4WayDiablo - 19-07-2013
Its really not noticeable the difference with fmic to tmic
Use the rear washer as an ic spray....
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 19-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 10:30 AM)4WayDiablo Wrote: Its really not noticeable the difference with fmic to tmic
Use the rear washer as an ic spray....
not a bad shout; i rarely use the rear washer ...
where's the motor for the rear? i know the tank is in the boot; is it near there i wonder?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Niall - 19-07-2013
Will be the same pump as the front washers
Re: RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - aggyj17 - 19-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 10:31 AM)ginge191 Wrote:(19-07-2013, 10:30 AM)4WayDiablo Wrote: Its really not noticeable the difference with fmic to tmic
Use the rear washer as an ic spray....
not a bad shout; i rarely use the rear washer ...
where's the motor for the rear? i know the tank is in the boot; is it near there i wonder?
Yea I am pretty sure that the pump is in the boot with the rear washer bottle
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - strictly_perv - 19-07-2013
I've been thinking ideas for you and I've come up with a cracker!
Get an intercooler and mount it in front of the radiator where the best and coolest air flow is and use pipes to join it to the turbo and mani. Lets call it a intercooler mounted at the front.. I am a genius.
/close thread #manthefuckup.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 19-07-2013
If I had money I was owed I'd probably get it sorted /wheresmymomey
Two people saying different pumps?!
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Dum-Dum - 19-07-2013
- I don't think you have enough space to build a decent metal cold air feed for the TMIC, it'll be less effective and more expensive than a bonnet scoop anyway.
- Water cooling is effective especially if you use a strong screenwash solution as it'll then be cooler than ambient by a few degrees. If you get a length of power steering or air con hard pipe and drill tiny holes every so often up the pipe then that'll give the best spread as mist jets don't do a good job. It does make a good difference to a TMIC (more than worth the effort) but you will have to watch you don't blast too much in as you could risk wither massive clouds of steam when it hits the turbo or worse cracking it.
- If I'm honest a combination of both is probably best as the water will aid heat transfer to cold air as well as cooling itself.
The above said though Max is right, man the f*ck up and fit a FMIC, its not expensive or difficult if you don't want it to be.
Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 19-07-2013
I have an intercooler: it's the piping and adapter which realistically would be looking at 60-70£.
If I could knock something up for a tenner. I'd be happy.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - puglove - 19-07-2013
umm buy my fmic?
Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 19-07-2013
I'd happily buy the piping and adapter for the right price... Pm me
Re: Revived; TMIC cooling options - kernow_joe - 19-07-2013
Can't you go scrap yard and get most of the bits from another vehicle, lot of nad vans have inlet same as xantia ones, I've got most of the stuff I need for around £20
Or intercooler spray did help on my old d turbo but without spending some money and running it from a pressure switch it's annoying plus your rear washer is all in the boot, really front Mount is easiest and most effective
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - silverzx - 20-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 09:56 AM)ginge191 Wrote: I'm noticing BAD heat soak and related boosting issues with the lack of cooling to the TMIC.
Your not alone.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Dave - 20-07-2013
(19-07-2013, 04:05 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: - I don't think you have enough space to build a decent metal cold air feed for the TMIC, it'll be less effective and more expensive than a bonnet scoop anyway.
- Water cooling is effective especially if you use a strong screenwash solution as it'll then be cooler than ambient by a few degrees. If you get a length of power steering or air con hard pipe and drill tiny holes every so often up the pipe then that'll give the best spread as mist jets don't do a good job. It does make a good difference to a TMIC (more than worth the effort) but you will have to watch you don't blast too much in as you could risk wither massive clouds of steam when it hits the turbo or worse cracking it.
- If I'm honest a combination of both is probably best as the water will aid heat transfer to cold air as well as cooling itself.
The above said though Max is right, man the f*ck up and fit a FMIC, its not expensive or difficult if you don't want it to be.
Are you seriously suggesting mounting your screenwash system into your air intake system?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Tom - 20-07-2013
Think dum means an intercooler spray not water injection :/
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Ricky - 20-07-2013
You need to make sure its a fine spray onto the intercooler, flooding it with water will make it worse.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Dum-Dum - 20-07-2013
(20-07-2013, 10:58 AM)Ricky Wrote: You need to make sure its a fine spray onto the intercooler, flooding it with water will make it worse.
Don't mean to sound like a bitch but do you have any evidence to support this? I ad always thought that because water gives a more effective heat transfer then the more water (and less air) you get the better the heat transfer.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - cwspellowe - 20-07-2013
(20-07-2013, 10:20 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(20-07-2013, 10:58 AM)Ricky Wrote: You need to make sure its a fine spray onto the intercooler, flooding it with water will make it worse.
Don't mean to sound like a bitch but do you have any evidence to support this? I ad always thought that because water gives a more effective heat transfer then the more water (and less air) you get the better the heat transfer.
Suggest you have a read of the laws of thermodynamics
The subsequent evaporation of the water mist means that the energy that was absorbed from the metal of the rad by the water is then lost to the atmosphere. This results in the overall kinetic energy of the structure being lower ie. temps colder than if it was just bathed in water alone.
Basically, water mist conducts heat energy away from TMIC, water heats up, evaporates, and lowers the temperature of the remaining water molecules.
If the TMIC is, for instance, dunked into water, heat is conducted away from the TMIC.. but thats all.
The lower volume of water would give a more drastic change in temperature as the water is allowed to evaporate quicker due to the higher surface area of a mist compared to a stream
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 21-07-2013
So.
Thermodynamics.
Lots or little water? Buckets or mist? This is all I want..
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - cwspellowe - 21-07-2013
Mist. A nice, even, fine mist
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 21-07-2013
Righty!
Mist jets are too thick, correct?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - cwspellowe - 21-07-2013
Mmmmm there are better options, it's more that they dont have a very wide spray pattern
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 21-07-2013
I'd probably mount two of them in fairness. I might nab TMIC surround I have spare and look at mounting ideas
Do you mean better most jet options, or different options altogether for use of a spray?
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - 4WayDiablo - 21-07-2013
Install a hose pipe sprinkler system :-)
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Tom - 21-07-2013
Get water sprayer walk along spraying it infront of you feel ho much colder walking through the mist is compared to walking unmisted.
Sound weird but we have a water sprayer at work and i like to play with it :/
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Ruan - 21-07-2013
If you're going to that effort, just use a Water Injection kit...
Seriously, I rekon half the time given a PROPER setup, even with pure water, it gives better results than a badly designed FMIC system...
However the BIGGEST difference you'll see is simply air inlet modifications, give the engine a GOOD unrestricted cold air feed and you'll see power gains way beyond an intercooler system... Liken to driving a car on a cold night, it'll pull better every time!
Remember, if you've not got the air density there to begin with, you can intercool all you want, but you won't get it back!!! Hence a GOOD air inlet system is critical on these engines... The vast majority of the time, you'll end up restricting the inlet, you need such a big inlet pipe for anything past stock... Don't assume that the inlet pipe size is suitable since that's where it draws it's air in... It isn't!!! If you have a stock T2 inlet pipe, I would be using something like 2.25 or 2.5" inlet piping... Anything bigger I'd be trying to step up to 2.75" or 3" pipework...
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - Dum-Dum - 21-07-2013
(21-07-2013, 01:21 PM)Ruan Wrote: If you're going to that effort, just use a Water Injection kit...
Seriously, I rekon half the time given a PROPER setup, even with pure water, it gives better as good results than a badly designed FMIC system...
EFA. Enjoy filling it up every day too.
RE: Revived; TMIC cooling options - ginge191 - 21-07-2013
(21-07-2013, 01:21 PM)Ruan Wrote: If you're going to that effort, just use a Water Injection kit...
Seriously, I rekon half the time given a PROPER setup, even with pure water, it gives better results than a badly designed FMIC system...
However the BIGGEST difference you'll see is simply air inlet modifications, give the engine a GOOD unrestricted cold air feed and you'll see power gains way beyond an intercooler system... Liken to driving a car on a cold night, it'll pull better every time!
Remember, if you've not got the air density there to begin with, you can intercool all you want, but you won't get it back!!! Hence a GOOD air inlet system is critical on these engines... The vast majority of the time, you'll end up restricting the inlet, you need such a big inlet pipe for anything past stock... Don't assume that the inlet pipe size is suitable since that's where it draws it's air in... It isn't!!! If you have a stock T2 inlet pipe, I would be using something like 2.25 or 2.5" inlet piping... Anything bigger I'd be trying to step up to 2.75" or 3" pipework...
interesting... a water meth kit could be installed into the inttercooler itself or the pipe connecting turbo to IC?
Also, i'm defiltered on the turbo, need to get it sorted really.. so inlet piping isnt a huge issues as of yet.
TBH come payday i'm looking at getting some adapter plates and start collating some bits and bobs, seeing as the turbo didnt sell, i'll may as well give it a jab, so sorting the induction temps would be useful to have sorted prior to this