It makes no difference whether the roll bar is there or not, because the weight transfer is the same either way.
It's not there to stop your car rolling over, it's there to balance the handling and improve the steering response.
You can turn a car over at walking speed, easily, roll bar or not. Don't confuse body roll with the whole vehicle rolling, they're two different modes, the latter needs enough overturning moment from the outside wheels, the former actually reduces that on a 306 given the strut geometery.
yeah but the ARB servs to reduce body roll, so carried momentum is less, weight shift is less past the COG with the ARB on until the force is enough to lift the wheel on the opposing side...
Lack of ARB won't CAUSE a vehicle to roll over but it will make it easier to roll it over as the additional body roll causes the weight to be further from the COG.
Driving like a penis (roll bar or not) there's a good chance of a crash. Iv driven vans cars 4x4s even some trucks with an without them and can hardly tell the difference. Just cause something is fitted to a car doesn't mean it makes a difference in the real world. All this was down to was wank driving with no talent.
(04-11-2016, 07:46 AM)Dum-Dum Wrote: [ -> ]Lack of ARB won't CAUSE a vehicle to roll over but it will make it easier to roll it over as the additional body roll causes the weight to be further from the COG.
This is the third person that's stated this with nothing to support it whatsoever.
Why do you believe that body roll will somehow lift the CoG?
Overturning moment will lift the CoG and that's higher with a front ARB on a 306 because the wishbone angle will be greater with less roll.
Extra body momentum could make it roll, yes - if throw the car into a bend whilst your dampers are f*cked and you hit a kerb or ditch with the outside wheel too. In which case you were f*cked anyway.
i am not saying that it would just randomly roll, but it would certainly make rolling the vehicle easier under the same conditions.
As i said earlier however this is more likely what has happened.. he has gone into a corner, the weight has shifted off of the front inside wheel, lowering its contribution to overall friction, this has then overcome the coefficient of friction for the remaining wheel and he has understeered onto a grass verge where the wheel has regained some latteral grip (dug the f*ck in) and turned over the car..
And Chris306, ARBs make a huge difference to the handling of cars on the road, its why the majority of cars (if not all passanger "normal" variants) come with a front ARB.. it makes the handling more pliable and steering more natural feeling,
if it made no difference to it then the engineers wouldnt have bothered putting it on the car in the first place..
your argument is flawed.
without a front arb its less likely to understeer due to the increased compliance across an axle thus higher grip as the wheel stays on the ground.
basically he was driving like a cock and got what he deserved.
(06-11-2016, 10:09 AM)Magenta Sunset Wrote: [ -> ](it had to be a civic)
interesting that no-one seemed to stop to help :/
I think 50% of that was caused by the fact they never brake, and even maybe accelerate during the whole ordeal?
And that's Shanghai, no one is stopping for you there!
(05-11-2016, 11:28 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ]i am not saying that it would just randomly roll, but it would certainly make rolling the vehicle easier under the same conditions.
As i said earlier however this is more likely what has happened.. he has gone into a corner, the weight has shifted off of the front inside wheel, lowering its contribution to overall friction, this has then overcome the coefficient of friction for the remaining wheel and he has understeered onto a grass verge where the wheel has regained some latteral grip (dug the f*ck in) and turned over the car..
Apart from this is completely wrong. Removing the front anti-roll bar reduces the loading across the front axle and
increases grip.
Having the ARB there is what shifts weight off the inside wheel. Everyone has things arse-backwards.
Soon as I saw that photo on the 1st page, that's driver error.
(06-11-2016, 04:20 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2016, 11:28 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ]i am not saying that it would just randomly roll, but it would certainly make rolling the vehicle easier under the same conditions.
As i said earlier however this is more likely what has happened.. he has gone into a corner, the weight has shifted off of the front inside wheel, lowering its contribution to overall friction, this has then overcome the coefficient of friction for the remaining wheel and he has understeered onto a grass verge where the wheel has regained some latteral grip (dug the f*ck in) and turned over the car..
Apart from this is completely wrong. Removing the front anti-roll bar reduces the loading across the front axle and increases grip.
Having the ARB there is what shifts weight off the inside wheel. Everyone has things arse-backwards.
up to the point which it catastrophically fails... which is a point markedly lower than with one
(07-11-2016, 08:08 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ] (06-11-2016, 04:20 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2016, 11:28 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ]i am not saying that it would just randomly roll, but it would certainly make rolling the vehicle easier under the same conditions.
As i said earlier however this is more likely what has happened.. he has gone into a corner, the weight has shifted off of the front inside wheel, lowering its contribution to overall friction, this has then overcome the coefficient of friction for the remaining wheel and he has understeered onto a grass verge where the wheel has regained some latteral grip (dug the f*ck in) and turned over the car..
Apart from this is completely wrong. Removing the front anti-roll bar reduces the loading across the front axle and increases grip.
Having the ARB there is what shifts weight off the inside wheel. Everyone has things arse-backwards.
up to the point which it catastrophically fails... which is a point markedly lower than with one
Why?
The point at which
what catastrophically fails?
The people on this thread commenting that people not knowing about suspension shouldn't modify cars are doing some catastrophic fails.
![[Image: 53334658.jpg]](https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53334658.jpg)
The point at which the sideways vector of force overrides the coefficient of friction, and the grip Catastrophically fails..
which is caused by the increased body roll moving the mass towards the outside of the turn due to centrifugal forces during the turn and lack of ARB shifting more weight off of the inner wheel.. f*ck..
And all the closet f*cking experts here saying you dont need an ARB, why the f*ck are they on the cars in the first place? why do manufacturers put them on there at the point of manufacture, Bragging rights? E-penis comparison? what!?
Body roll moving mass to the outside of the turn?
Lack of anti roll bar shifting weight off the inside wheel?
Tell you what, come back and argue with me when you've read a few kinematics books. Then you can apologise for the bollocks I just had to read.
toseland I think its do with safety now, you go back 20 years ago plus and you will find some cars didn't have anti roll bars at all,
(07-11-2016, 10:57 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ]The point at which the sideways vector of force overrides the coefficient of friction, and the grip Catastrophically fails..
which is caused by the increased body roll moving the mass towards the outside of the turn due to centrifugal forces during the turn and lack of ARB shifting more weight off of the inner wheel.. f*ck..
And all the closet f*cking experts here saying you dont need an ARB, why the f*ck are they on the cars in the first place? why do manufacturers put them on there at the point of manufacture, Bragging rights? E-penis comparison? what!?
Word of the day bog roll mate?
(07-11-2016, 10:57 PM)toseland Wrote: [ -> ]The point at which the sideways vector of force overrides the coefficient of friction, and the grip Catastrophically fails..
which is caused by the increased body roll moving the mass towards the outside of the turn due to centrifugal forces during the turn and lack of ARB shifting more weight off of the inner wheel.. f*ck..
And all the closet f*cking experts here saying you dont need an ARB, why the f*ck are they on the cars in the first place? why do manufacturers put them on there at the point of manufacture, Bragging rights? E-penis comparison? what!?
Dude, you're embarrassing yourself, Rippthrough does this shit for a living yeah?
Tose, aren't you a science teacher? Thought you'd be the one to teach this sort of stuff?
chemistry probably, not physics
So a science teacher is telling how many mechanics by trade what does what on a car? Love it haha
you need to be a bit more than a mechanic to get a basic grasp of suspension systems and principles
I have no idea wtf is going on here but i'll try and sum it up..
Some muppet has crashed his car due to driving like a bell.
The internet has lost its mind because it had no droplinks on it...
Everyone has now tried (and most failed) to wave their E-penis with questionable knowledge....
And i'm still trying to find a reason to give a toss. Get over yourselves guys
Maybe I am just not explaining myself well enough.. lets leave this here then.
Right, you're all banned from modifying cars
(08-11-2016, 12:41 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: [ -> ]Right, you're all banned from modifying cars
cool Il take your advice!
FOR SALE
Bianca GTI6
complete with wheels, tyre, Multiple engine, spares package
£3500 OVNO
(08-11-2016, 01:00 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: [ -> ]Does it have droplinks?
(08-11-2016, 01:00 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: [ -> ]Does it have droplinks?
just for you theres a new set still in there packet never fitted
